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Need to build or buy 90 degree 180hp drive, help..

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  • Need to build or buy 90 degree 180hp drive, help..

    Well.. It is stuck.. Mentally and physically. I am building a pontiac Quad4 motorcycle, Did the sketches, got the springer front end, Got the 6 speed harley transmission, Wheels, Now the 90 degree drive has me still stumped. (motor is inline, transmission is 90 degrees)

    We used a boat foot on the pinto powered 3 wheeler. Can't find one I can afford.

    Possibly, two pinon gears from a rear axle? the gears would have to be 45 degree. unit needs to be as small as possible, engineering the drive it needs to at least transfer 60hp. Rear drive belt specs, not mine.

    HELP... Without a solution, I will have to build another Boring harley clone with the parts I have already. (been there done that)

    I'll post a sketch if you can't see what I am doing..

    [This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 09-22-2003).]

  • #2
    Probably have to make it. You can buy stock hardened spiral bevel gears and fabricating a housing isn't rocket science.

    I wouldn't reccommend a reduction before the transmission. The engine will have so much torque there's danger of overloading the Harley input shaft.

    Select 1:1 miter gears having proportions about 2/3 of the rear ends gears for the car the engine came out of. Probably 25 teeth x 5 Dp x 5" Pd.

    Find a book on gearing and read up on it. Run a few numbers.

    Pick taper roller bearings to support the cantilevered gear.

    Too bad you can't find a hypoid miter gear set so both gears are straddle mounted on shafts that cross but don't interfere. Such a set also raises the output shaft so you can possibly gear drive the Harly transmission making a more compact package. I hate major HP timing belt drives; they're so bulky.

    I suggest 1"/ft tapered keyed fits to hold the grars to the shafts. Heat the gears to 450 degrees and shink them on their cold shafts, hold them in place with a heavy bearing nut locked bearing washer.

    Using the Harley clutch on the transmision? Mount the miter gearbox directly on a plate-and-ring bell housing that barely clears the rotating parts. Have the input shaft pilot in the crank bore and drive from a spider from the clutch bolts on a flywheel.

    If you go about it right the miter gear drive shouldn't extend over 6" past the bell housing flange.

    Be sure to arrange the bevel gears so the spirals tend to "unscrew" from motor torque like those of the hypoid gearing in an auto rear end.

    V-8 powered motorcycle? Life geting tedious?

    [This message has been edited by Forrest Addy (edited 09-22-2003).]


    • #3

      No, it is the quad4 from a pontiac grandAm.. I think the V8 motorcycles are too large.. too heavy.. this one will be as light as a Indian 4 was..

      Look up Dakota4 or english indian motorcycles on the web.. I found them after I started this project (about two years ago)

      got any good gear links?


      Ohh.. and the canadian made boss-hog transmission is $6500, more than I plan to spend..

      [This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 09-22-2003).]


      • #4
        I Haven't messed around with MCs for about 30 years and even then I wasn't very good. So if I'm out of line ,say so.But couldn't you convert a BMW or Moto-Guzzi rear end to serve your purpose? As I recall they're making a 90.


        • #5

          You'll probably want to lighten the flywheel as much as possible so it doesn't flip you on the ground when it revs. Any way you could use parts from a shaft drive bike?
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here


          • #6
            Hi ibewgypsie,
            Have you thought about an independent suspension differential (front or rear) from an imported car?
            Surely a little jap 4x4 diff (or maybe an Audi 4wd rear) wouldn't weigh too much.It could be mounted above the transmission with a belt or chain to drive the transmission to help keep the oal down.
            Just random thoughts,Robert.


            • #7
              Maybe there is something to be learned from examining the drive trains of high-horsepower outboard motors. They are light and compact...


              • #8

                Yeah, the Dakota 4 uses a bmw transmission and clutch. Works for them, but they have a better supply than I do. I looked for a while, at bmw's and goldwings. They use a air cooled volvo motor. Mine is watercooled and hi-tech.

                The boat 90 degree gear drive is the best looking, lightest I have seen..


                sent me a picture of a 90 degree gearbox. I asked him for specs.. He has saved my bacon before.. One of them good ole boys from out west.


                • #9
                  Quit messing with that old out of date stuff and get into the new century. Why not try hydraulics? One hydraulic motor and one pump to the shaft. You eliminate brakes,clutches and transmissons. Our commercial fishing industry has been using them for years.


                  • #10
                    What will the input speed of this gearbox be?I need to know that first,then I can figure the rest.
                    I just need one more tool,just one!


                    • #11
                      The lil quad4 has a 8,000 rpm redline..

                      I know.. that is why it has the forged pistons from the factory, 4 valves per cylinder..

                      It costs a lot to rebuild one of these lil bitty motors cause of the high rpm parts.

                      I got a woodie seeing one in a oldsmobile concept car lap indy cars. It had a ducted airflow allowing variable downforce. (illegal by indy rules) but was lapping the cars with a stock motor.

                      Someone send me the money for the following bike.. whoo hoo , ain't it cute.. someother shop-rocket built this one thou

                      Sorry, I was rude not to post thier website.. No, affliation, just admiration..


                      [This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 09-22-2003).]


                      • #12

                        OK, can't wait any longer --- HOW does a 180 hp Olds lap Indy cars (concept car, ground effect, whatever) ?



                        • #13
                          From what I read, by maintaining a very high speed. Yes, like hunting elephants with a 22..

                          It was a mid engine design, with ducting.

                          Can someone tell me if this is the same 16valve engine in the Saturns?


                          • #14
                            I don't know; seems to me you might have a hard time keeping all the stuffing in that trans at 8,000rpm. You can get the innerds from a transaxle (front wheel drive) from a salvage yard.

                            These would more likely handle the RPM. Even so, I'd make sure the case or scatter band is at least 3/8" thick. At 8,000rpm, a broken gear tooth will be traveling at 200+ feet per second. Mass x Speed = BIG HOLE!


                            • #15

                              I had this lil falcoon.. it blowed up the pressure plate and disc, went plum through the radio and heater, cracked the windshield. Missed my right foot by inches.

                              Valid point.. but remember I am a grey bearded biker, I won't wind it that tight. "I think".. I would like to harrass a local cop thou.. but then I would have to purchase the expensive tires..