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perpetual motion , Overunity and free energy nuts all over the web.

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  • #61
    I teach an intro to tech class and students trying to cite PM machine type BS got so bad I had to add the following to the assignment guidelines:

    Urban Legends

    In previous classes a few students (very few) have attempted to use urban legends and conspiracy theories in the Discussion Board and in Virtual Field Trip Reports. This is not a class in contemporary culture, political science, the Twilight Zone, or similar fields of study. This is AMS 210 Intro to Technology and is a general science credit. As such, urban legends and conspiracy theories do not belong in this class. There are plenty of web sites one can visit to where one can immerse oneself into such topics.

    FDR was not forewarned of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the US Government did not store explosives in the OKC Federal Building or the Twin Towers. Nor has there ever been a 100 MPG carburetor, or similar “technologies”. Last, but not least, mankind did not domesticate dinosaurs as some claim with a straight face.

    DB posts and/or VFTR’s referring to urban legends and conspiracy theories fall into the No Credit category. I also recommend that you read the syllabus, specifically the Course Objectives and Course Topics as one will see that urban legends and conspiracy theories are not included in either of these sections.

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    • #62
      Perpetual motion exists in space, a unit of energy exerted to a mass in space will push that mass at the speed and velocity at the original time of contact.
      Not even there or then. Space isn't empty, not even in the intergalactic abyss. The atmosphere is exceedingly rare but it still exists there and will present a tiny amount of friction. There are other effects as well. Gravity in particular presents loss mechanisms that transfer energy from any object with relative motion to all other objects in the universe.

      There truly is no free lunch. You cannot win or even break even. The game is rigged so the house always wins.

      Imho think out of the box. The universal law is an action that will create an reaction, if you put 123 in and achieve your desired effect and get 456 out 123 still exists but changed to 456 perpetual motion!!!!!.
      Rule number 1: Energy cannot be created or destroyed.

      That means you cannot get out more than you put in, ever. The most you can do is to use x amount of energy to move X*2 amount of energy from one place to another. Energy may be transformed and moved by using less energy than the amount manipulated. No amount of energy can create new energy. To move energy from A to B there must be some source of energy at A. Thinking outside the box is only an expression for creative thinking. Creative thinking cannot create energy.
      Last edited by Evan; 07-19-2010, 08:46 PM.
      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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      • #63
        Who needs perpetual motion when you've got the Air Car!

        Tata Motors to introduce Air Car - Is it the next big thing? Tata Motors is taking giant strides and making history for itself. First the world's cheapest car and now it is also set to introduce the car that runs on air, compressed air.



        With spiraling fuel prices it is about time we heard some breakthrough!
        India's largest automaker Tata Motors is set to start producing the world's first commercial air-powered vehicle.

        The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy Ngre for Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air, as opposed to the gas-and-oxygen explosions of internal-combustion models, to push its engine's pistons. Some 6000 zero-emissions Air Cars are scheduled to hit Indian streets by August 2010.

        The Air Car, called the MiniCAT could cost around Rs. 3,50,000 ($ 8177) in India and would have a range of around 300 km between refuels.

        The cost of a refill would be about Rs. 85 ($ 2).
        The MiniCAT which is a simple, light urban car, with a tubular chassis that is glued not welded and a body of fiberglass powered by compressed air. Microcontrollers are used in every device in the car, so one tiny radio transmitter sends instructions to the lights, indicators etc.

        There are no keys - just an access card which can be read by the car from your pocket. According to the designers, it costs less than 50 rupees per 100Km (about a tenth that of a petrol car). Its mileage is about double that of the most advanced electric car (200 to 300 km or 10 hours of driving), a factor which makes a perfect choice in cities where the 80% of motorists drive at less than 60Km. The car has a top speed of 105 kmph. Refilling the car will, once the market develops, take place at adapted petrol stations to administer compressed air. In two or three minutes, and at a cost of approximately 100 rupees, the car will be ready to go another 200-300 kilometers.

        As a viable alternative, the car carries a small compressor which can be connected to the mains (220V or 380V) and refill the tank in 3-4 hours. Due to the absence of combustion and, consequently, of residues, changing the oil (1 litre of vegetable oil) is necessary only every 50,000Km).
        Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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        • #64
          Air Car

          I hope Lucas Electric isn't involved. If they are, they will be crashing into everything and littering the roadsides.
          Kansas City area

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          • #65
            This thread NEEDS this link:

            http://www.webexhibits.org/bogus/index.html
            1601

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

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            • #66
              Many years ago when I was in high school ( a long time ago) we had a neighbor that owned a propane plant. He fitted a VW bug with a propane set up and put the tank in the rear space behind the rear seat. Since that was fairly new, at least to us he had a lot of fun by pulling into a gas station and asking if he could use the water hose and would proceed to fill the gas tank under the hood. Then with a dramatic flair reach into his pocket and take out two small white pills, drop them in the tank and drive off.
              As young kids we were very impressed as was some adults.

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              • #67
                That's really funny.

                As to the Air Car: I am a little skeptical. Not saying it cannot work, but I think it seems like a maintenance problem due in part to the extreme high pressure and need for very efficient pneumatic motors. Possibly dangerous.
                It could also be pretty good.
                I'm also skeptical about the low recharge cost - you still ahve to pay for electricity. And the range it gets is not really overwhelming for electric cars, though it's very good.


                My favorite right now is electric cars, the way nanotech batteries are developing.

                One different issue, though. THere's this guy I know who told me about some variation of the pneumatic car and he said it just needs to be pumped with a "nailgun compressor"(For five hours? Unlikely that this works at only 300 PSI!) and then that it can go indefinitely because "it recycles it's exhaust into the input". I tried to call the PM, but he did not get it and told me to read the source. He did not even realize that it was PM. THen he compared the BS exhaust recycling to a cyclic engine where each cycle of the engine automatically starts the next one (like a gas engine or an automatic weapon).

                He also talked about a car which is powered by a fuel cell which is fueled by a built-in electrolyzer which is powered by internal batteries. Conversion inefficiency much? He claimed this would make it much more efficient. Fuel cells get regarded as a 'special power' as is nuclear power, occasionally.

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                • #68
                  The Air Car, called the MiniCAT could cost around Rs. 3,50,000 ($ 8177) in India and would have a range of around 300 km between refuels.
                  That is because the "air car" actually runs on gasoline. If run strictly on compressed air it has a range of a couple of kilometres.
                  Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                  • #69
                    But only if constructed solely from two liter soda bottles.

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                    • #70
                      Evan

                      I did not mention if we were to create or destroy energy.

                      My example of 123 -456 was meant to be read as we have an amount of energy and or mass here by placing an action upon it reacts and changes to 456. Emphasis on the word Change.

                      Creative thinking will not create energy true, but creative thinking will use the universal abundance of energy to achieve what ever man desires.

                      Where I agree with you here is your right there is no free lunch, a spec smaller than a flies toenail in space if hit would absorb some energy.

                      While we here on earth consume our time with the age old problem of perpetual motion, all we have achieved so far is really fuel efficiency and how to max it, in the big black yonder a perpetual motion machine would be useless.

                      The real problem is speed and time. When man figures out speed only then will he be allowed into the other dimensions where there exists a whole set of new rules.

                      Anthony +1

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                      • #71
                        how about all you non belivers get off your buts make the same sorta rig and try it then you will belive.


                        look iam not trying to be rude well maybe a little , but it seems to me that alot of people on here ar very closed minded,

                        the biggest reason not to bleive in propetual motion is the simple fact that eventually one of 2 things is going to happen someday the bearing is going to wear out or the magnuts will lose power and eventually they will. but this does not prove that propetual motion is not real.. it just means that some day you got parts that need to be replaced.and not even the most advanced alien race can make something that will not one day wear out or break down, that is not physics thats FACT..

                        i find most people just pissed for a few reasons, they either feel someone stole their idea or they have been condition sence birth to follow one set of laws and beliefs and that nothing except whats in books is able to be done, surpise take a look around you..

                        boy was the world pissed when someone descoverd and proved carbon dating was false..bet alot of collectors were pissed off as well.

                        can a car drive it self , its up and comming thats not propetual motion its advaced techno stuff.

                        what technolgey is a cell phone based on any one that answer , i do but id like to hear from you guys.

                        when was the light bulb really invented and by who,

                        iam sure there are alot of thngs that have been faked but equally there as much or more thats not fake but most seem to still swear its not real, well that is how you have condition your self then you will stay that way,the church is the master of closed mindedness,

                        all the world knows there is a god and jesus and what jesus did onthe cross for man kind, but only 5% belive it and folow it 95% know it but deny it, or dont belive it at all.

                        amonge the 5% of belivers less then 2% know and belive as well that there is life out there and we are not alone in this vast universe..

                        amonge the world many think there is a beginning and end to the universe but there isnt, and i dont need a telescope to prove it , its simple, to understand, if there is a begining and an end then we are in a box or bubble or we dont even exist none of this is real.. but because we live and breath and think and advance we are real . so the universe is real and all thats in it and around it there for races form other planets have visited us and have helped us alonge and still do iam sure, and are here,, some are human like us just more advanced ..others are likely like the grays but just not in the public eye yet, aline abductions some are real alot are not.

                        so wrap your head aoround all this even the last 100 years of advancement and then you have the answer that things are not all that they seem to be.

                        propetual motion is real but it like all other tecnolegys has the same rule eventually it will break down and need repair . this does not mean something can not propel it self with out gas or a battery or compressed air, it just means it will one day need parts replaced, even a magnut loses energy over time..

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by airsmith282
                          .. the biggest reason not to bleive in propetual motion is the simple fact that eventually one of 2 things is going to happen someday the bearing is going to wear out or the magnuts will lose power and eventually they will...

                          boy was the world pissed when someone descoverd and proved carbon dating was false..bet alot of collectors were pissed off as well.
                          THe biggest reason to not believe in perpetual motion is that the laws prohibit it.

                          Carbon dating is accurate and valid withing the constraints of the test. That means that you have to test the correct material.
                          Last edited by Richard-TX; 07-20-2010, 09:58 AM.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by airsmith282
                            how about all you non belivers get off your buts make the same sorta rig and try it then you will belive.
                            Are you implying that you've made > Unity machine?

                            propetual motion is real but it like all other tecnolegys has the same rule eventually it will break down and need repair.
                            If you don't believe the laws of thermodynamics*, how about common sense: "There's no free ride."


                            *
                            In all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state.

                            The universal law is an action that will create an reaction, if you put 123 in and achieve your desired effect and get 456 out 123 still exists but changed to 456 perpetual motion!!!!!

                            ...

                            The real problem is speed and time. When man figures out speed only then will he be allowed into the other dimensions where there exists a whole set of new rules.
                            Oh, my head!:
                            Last edited by lazlo; 07-20-2010, 10:23 AM.
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by airsmith282

                              the biggest reason not to bleive in propetual motion is the simple fact that eventually one of 2 things is going to happen someday the bearing is going to wear out or the magnuts will lose power and eventually they will. but this does not prove that propetual motion is not real.. it just means that some day you got parts that need to be replaced.and not even the most advanced alien race can make something that will not one day wear out or break down, that is not physics thats FACT..
                              I don't see how that works. If you've got perpetual motion doesn't absence of wear go right along with it. The PM machine will NOT in fact stop because wear is nonexistent and the magnets will never lose power because no energy is moving out of the system or they just never get tired like the rest of us.
                              .
                              "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by TGTool
                                If you've got perpetual motion doesn't absence of wear go right along with it. The PM machine will NOT in fact stop because wear is nonexistent and the magnets will never lose power because no energy is moving out of the system
                                Exactly. The friction/heat from the bearings is a prime example of entropy, a.k.a. the second law of thermodynamics. Wear is another -- anything that wears is leaking energy.
                                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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