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O/T: Hubble shots

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  • O/T: Hubble shots

    Spurred on by Evans outstanding moon shot, here are some incredible Hubble shots starting about the 5th frame of the slide show.
    Notably, one is some 8000 light years away.

    I hate these type of slide shows that tell you to send it to all you know because it will change their life blah, blah but the pictures are worth the time it takes to view it.

    http://www.slideshare.net/Nubiagroup...mie-by-azartha

  • #2
    Ken you do know those colors are added and the shades are chosen by engineers and artists don't you? This was discussed at length in a thread here last year, with many differing opinions, but those "photos" are not what they appear. The objects that Hubble photographs do not appear as they do with all those beautiful colors, that is IF you could see them at all. The colors are NASA's way of making the objects visible but they do not exist in space as the people behind the Hubble project seem to want everyone to believe, often the pictures include the term "faux colours" or some other obscure reference to the colors not being real but most times they just lie by omission and lead people to believe those things really appear that way. Those colors could be any shades, from the beautiful ones that are chosen to dull and boring, and be just as correct. They only represent radiation in various wave lengths and are in no way a true representation of space in the real sense, as one of the NASA engineers put it "space just don't look like that" and if you could see it there would be little or no colors just white light and varying shades of gray. I have no problem with presenting these photos in a form that can be seen and if making them beautiful to look at will help maintain interest in space exploration then the colors are a good idea but be truthful about them. Leading people to believe that space is filled with beautiful colorful objects when what they are actually looking at is either dull and boring or simply invisible is doing no one any good, we have as a society been "dumbed down" enough already without having this "colorful" myth presented as fact, which is what is happening when these photos are presented without the disclaimer that the colors are not real and are in fact chosen by artists and engineers to make a representation of an object that is mostly invisible to the human eye.

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    • #3
      Hi radkins,
      Yes, was fully aware of that, but others may not be, so it was good for you to make note of that color enhanced fact.


      Ken

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      • #4
        Hey rad, where did Ken lead anyone to believe anything? He just stated that they were cool pics.... and they are. I couldn't care less if the colors are true ar not, but it gives some of us some kind of representation of the radiation patterns and levels.

        Nice tall soapbox ya got there.

        Thanks Ken.

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        • #5
          Since the various filters used in space photography pass certain frequencies of radiation, and since our eyes cannot naturally see radiation at many of those frequencies, any color assigned to them, even shades of gray, produce false color images. It is impossible to avoid false color when presenting information from outside our visible range except by presenting the images as tables of data. Infra-red night vision devices, for example, present false color.

          When images from several filters are stacked it is advantageous to select unique colors to represent the different filter results. Else why bother stacking the images? The result is multicolor images of otherwise impossible to see objects and with each object clearly distinguishable from the others. Since the color selection for any particular frequency outside our range of vision is arbitrary, there is nothing evil about selecting colors that present valuable information in a generally attractive way.

          People who can be made to believe the colors are natural (and I've never seen a professional astronomer, or even an amateur attempt to deceive anyone regarding the necessity of using false color), then those people are simply under-educated about space and space photography. That, in fact, is harmless.

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          • #6
            i reckon it dosent matter, the green i see is not the same as the green you see anyway, bet the whole world looks different through every set of eyes looking at it
            regards
            mark

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            • #7
              Originally posted by garagemark
              Hey rad, where did Ken lead anyone to believe anything? He just stated that they were cool pics.... and they are. I couldn't care less if the colors are true ar not, but it gives some of us some kind of representation of the radiation patterns and levels.

              Nice tall soapbox ya got there.

              Thanks Ken.


              Did I say he did?


              I never even hinted at that and in fact asked if he was aware of it, my beef is with the people who are perpetuating a myth that there are indeed colorful objects out in deep space and these are pictures of what they look like when that simply is not true. As far as "cool pics" the same principle could be used to "photograph" the emissions from a radio tower and colors assigned to the various frequencies to present a beautiful "photo", would that be "cool" also if it were presented as an actual representation of what you would see if you looked at the tower? That's what is being done here by the people who produce these "photos" and that simply is not right, science is supposed to be fact and leading people to believe something is true when it is not is just plain wrong. There is no arguing that there are those who do indeed perpetuate this myth and it is a sad state of affairs when most people who look at these things think they are real, that's not what science is about!


              DP, I know HOW they produce these pictures and WHY and explaining over and over about how and why they produce them does not address the question of why they don't tell people the whole truth about them, that's what my gripe is. I don't care HOW they do it or even WHY just as long as they are presented as the enhanced and false colorized pictures that they are. On a local news program a while back they were showing some of the latest "photos" from Hubble and had a guest from NASA explaining the Hubble program and the "Awe inspiring photos" that it takes. They even talked about the huge beautiful universe that no artistic work could even come close to comparing to and not once did they tell the people watching that all those colors were indeed the work of artists and engineers!


              Once again, no matter how much some want to believe the pics are real the fact is that, to quote one NASA engineer, "space just don't look like that" and leading people to believe something as colorful as that exists just as it appears in the photos does not make it so.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by radkins
                Ken you do know those colors are added and the shades are chosen by engineers and artists don't you?

                radkins, you could take the "fun" out of funeral!


                I find the "enhanced" Hubble pics to be quite cool, I download them for desktop backgrounds. Much nicer than the generic Windows stuff.



                Rex

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by radkins

                  DP, I know HOW they produce these pictures and WHY and explaining over and over about how and why they produce them does not address the question of why they don't tell people the whole truth about them, that's what my gripe is. I don't care HOW they do it or even WHY just as long as they are presented as the enhanced and false colorized pictures that they are.
                  This is unnecessary for educated people. Everything is necessary for uneducated people. That job is simply too big.

                  On a local news program a while back they were showing some of the latest "photos" from Hubble and had a guest from NASA explaining the Hubble program and the "Awe inspiring photos" that it takes. They even talked about the huge beautiful universe that no artistic work could even come close to comparing to and not once did they tell the people watching that all those colors were indeed the work of artists and engineers!
                  Hubble does create "photos", so ok there. They are awe inspiring, at least between my ears, so ok there. The universe is certainly big - another ok, and it is beautiful beyond any artist's skill to match, so another ok. Didn't tell us the colors were not always natural because there's no such thing as yellow electromagnetic waves? Only matters to undereducated people, assuming they care. It falls short of deception, costs nothing, and the curious among them may be inspired to seek more information.

                  Once again, no matter how much some want to believe the pics are real the fact is that, to quote one NASA engineer, "space just don't look like that" and leading people to believe something as colorful as that exists just as it appears in the photos does not make it so.
                  The pictures are real, a lot of color in space is natural. Explore Orion with a large telescope, or just look at the photos that are available. http://gallery.pictopia.com/collecti...rcroman:35936/

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                  • #10
                    NASA does NOT hide the fact that they use false colour. If you go to the NASA image archives they take pains to point out when an image is false coloured and explain what the colours represent.

                    It is the press and others that ignore that information. False colour is a valuable and necessary tool.
                    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                    • #11
                      Looking further, i thought this was interesting
                      http://www.rc-astro.com/equipment/observatory/index.htm

                      Last edited by Deja Vu; 08-27-2010, 07:39 PM.
                      John M...your (un)usual basement dweller

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evan
                        NASA does NOT hide the fact that they use false colour. If you go to the NASA image archives they take pains to point out when an image is false coloured and explain what the colours represent.

                        It is the press and others that ignore that information. False colour is a valuable and necessary tool.


                        Actually you are right as NASA is not as guilty as the media but the media goes out of their way to make these things more than they are.


                        You guys can flame me all you want but that does not change the fact that most people who see these photos think that what they are seeing is as it appears in nature and there ARE people who perpetuate this myth, a LOT of people! Why is that some people seem to get fighting mad when someone mentions that these colorful pictures are the work of engineers and artists? These "beautiful" and colorful images exist only in print and do not appear in nature like they do in the photos so why get uptight when someone points that out? These images are of real objects and it is necessary to present them in a way we can see but be honest about the way the images that we see are produced, it is the misleading way these things are usually presented that I take exception to (ok so it's mostly the media to blame it's still a fact that it is done). Other colors could be chosen to represent these objects and an image could be just plain ugly due to the colors selected and it would still be just as "real" but I understand, and appreciate, the reasons for them being done the way they are still that is no excuse for deception. To present these images as real photos of objects as they would actually appear in space is just plain wrong and a disclaimer such as a "composite image" or "Faux colors" just does not get the point across. No matter how much someone might want to believe these images are accurate representations of the objects as they exist in nature it simply is not so and you can beat up on me all you like and it will not change that fact-even though the cosmos is truly beautiful beyond description in other ways it just does not look like like it does in the "photos"!

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                        • #13
                          In one major sense ALL astrophotos are "enhanced" and all represent that which we cannot see. Our eyes simply cannot detect what the photos depict since they cannot gather enough light.

                          Images of great glowing galaxies in 100% natural colour cannot be seen by the human eye from any vantage point. Not from Earth nor from any arbitrary place in space. The distributed glow of a billion stars has the same apparent brightness from close up or far away. This is because as you move closer to an illuminated field of view the portion of that field viewed remains the same in terms of subtended arc but represents a smaller portion of the entire field in exactly the same proportion as the change in distance squared (or inverse).

                          Individual point sources of light are another matter. Stars and planets grow in apparent brightness as they are approached since they are effectively point source until viewed from very close. Stars however, are singularly uninteresting objects. It is only in their widely distributed masses that they become awesome to behold in photographs.
                          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                          • #14
                            Evan again that has nothing to do with my point! While you are right that still does not justify the deception that is taking place and deception IS taking place! Beautiful as the photos may be to some they simply are not true representations of what is out there and all the explanations of how and why it is done just does not change that. The site below pretty much covers what I am trying to say.

                            http://www.appscout.com/2009/09/hubb...really_loo.php

                            Also I found this interesting,

                            http://www.space.com/scienceastronom..._020625-1.html


                            These are not nutty conspiracy sites they just offer a sensible discussion of the subject.

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