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  • OT Small cars for New York Congestion

    You guys will love these

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11301831

    Steve Larner

  • #2
    Gordon Murray discusses the T.25 & T.27

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    • #3
      An earlier entry on Mr Murray's CV:

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      • #4
        I don't think the current method of making cars could be sustainable. Its just too crazy carrying around a single 200lb person (or two) in a 2000~6000lbs of steel and iron car, Every year a new totaly incompatable model released by everyone requireing massive redesigns/retooling/etc.

        So really exciting to see someone trying SOMETHING new. Though the way he says it can be so easily redesigned might not exactly be helpful in the whole part compatability catagory.. But then, maybe the reason it can be easily redesigned is he has allready picked packages of generic common parts that can be selected depending on requirements, Insted of designing totaly new parts when existing (tested for 10+ years on the road, known to proform well) parts would do just as well if you thought about designing with them.

        Conform your design to the parts, Not your parts to the design.
        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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        • #5
          You don't understand. Americans don't like these dinky little euro cars. (With the exception of yuppie leftist environazis)

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          • #6
            They will have to pry the steering wheel of my pickup and/or SUV from my cold dead fingers! It is all I have ever had, and all I will ever have.

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            • #7
              I can get every one of you out of your big cars tomorrow morning..... gas at$15 a gal and a $5k a 1000mile tax everything unter 1tonne or 1500cc exempt.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by beanbag
                You don't understand. Americans don't like these dinky little euro cars. (With the exception of yuppie leftist environazis)
                nor would i, with so many hulking SUVS on the road ,...v8 pick-ups being driven by everyone.

                all the best.markj

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                • #9
                  I like the idea that making cars smaller eases congestion.

                  As far as I can see, smaller cars just allows more cars to jam up the same stretch of highway than before, with the result that when the jam eases up front, then more cars need to have a safe gap in front of them than before, and it takes longer for the guys at the back to get going.

                  People fill roads till they're full. For full, read unbearable to drive on. That's why it's commuters in the jams. For them, a jam is better than what they've been doing all day. For people who like a bit of freedom, it really is unbearable.

                  If you want to cut jams and congestion, the first thing you have to do is change work patterns dramatically. To my mind, there's no alternative to changing the nine-to-five habit of schools and offices. I know some progress has been made, but I'd be surprised if more than twenty percent of office workers were on flexi-time, and even then, standard flexi-time isn't really flexible enough to hit the mark.

                  Once you get real flexible hours going, you might start to make an impact on what now seems to be the lunchtime rush hour.

                  As for smaller cars meaning less energy use, how about lower more air-efficient cars, and a tax on SUVs and other small charabancs ?
                  Richard - SW London, UK, EU.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mike os
                    I can get every one of you out of your big cars tomorrow morning..... gas at$15 a gal and a $5k a 1000mile tax everything unter 1tonne or 1500cc exempt.
                    With the obligatory exemption for the politicians and their special funding buddies... And only the middle class will have to pay.

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                    • #11
                      Little cars are a great idea until you get hit by a delivery truck. Then you're just dead. Anyway, by the time these little cars meet US safety and emission standards they'll be the size of a '64 Impala and weigh 3 tons.

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                      • #12
                        Little cars let you steer outta the way of the delivery truck, or stop short of it, avoiding injury.

                        Id rather avoid injury then have broken legs in an SUV and have deductables to pay!
                        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                        • #13
                          There is a time and a place for little cars, and a time and a place for big cars.

                          Personally, I prefer small cars- and I have yet to be hit by a delivery truck. I dont want to be hit by a delivery truck while I am driving my F150, though, either. My ideal mix is a full sized pickup, and a tiny 2 seater sports car.

                          For single people, who live in cities, a small car makes a lot of sense. I have friends in Italy who used to own a Fiat 600 that they let me drive, and it was a total hoot to drive around in crowded Italian cities- you could practically park it at right angles to the curb.

                          They sell plenty of Smart Cars, Miatas, Mini-Coopers, Priuses, Honda Fits, and other tiny cars in my area, and not to yuppies, either.

                          Yuppies, by definition, are Professionals- thats the "P" in yuppie- and in my experience, they like BMW's quite a bit, big 4 door 5 series machines, C class Mercedes, and Lexus SUV's.

                          I find that a lot of older people in the rural area where I live drive very small cars- they are cheap, easy to park, and get good gas mileage. Pretty much every Prius I see going by has a gray head at the wheel.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mike os
                            I can get every one of you out of your big cars tomorrow morning..... gas at$15 a gal and a $5k a 1000mile tax everything unter 1tonne or 1500cc exempt.
                            Big deal, that is why I am in business. Taxes go up the customer pays them for me. I will still only have trucks and SUV's.

                            And a fleet of them will be hauling race cars to all the tracks every weekend. Because they will find the money to do it.

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                            • #15
                              I'd love to have a Smartcar for here in San Francisco. Parking sucks almost everywhere. We usually only drive somewhere once or twice a week and that is to go out to dinner or grocery shopping. If I need to bring home bigger stuff I'll take my GMC Safari van (which only gets used for hauling duty).

                              You can't do anything about "what if XXX hits you" beyond either staying in at home or driving around in an Abrams tank. There are too many people who seem to have taken the idea of "I need to outweigh everything on the road" as being the main criterion for purchasing a vehicle. They can't legally park a lot of those giant SUVs many places here in town because they are just too long to fit in an urban environment.

                              Yurp has all kinds of cool little cars, but even a nw Fiat Cinguecento isn't that short at 139" overall. It isn't bad, that's the same length as a 1973 Civic, but a Smart is about 102. A 73 Mini was 120" and I actually did a little looking for one a couple years ago until I came to my senses and admitted my garage was too full of tools to ever give me room to work on a project car.

                              Here's a link to Murray's "Istream" page: http://www.gordonmurraydesign.com/istream.php
                              cheers,
                              Michael
                              Last edited by Michael Moore; 09-21-2010, 05:31 PM.

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