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OT: Handguns.

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  • #16
    What sort of sized animal are we defending against?
    Precision takes time.

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    • #17
      Can you tell me anything that will convince me to get one?
      I love guns. But by your statement, I recommend you don't get one. Sounds like you need to talk to the cops.

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      • #18
        The .357 magnum is a quite capable self defense round. A bonus is that you can train and practice with .38 special rounds should you find a full .357 magnum a little much for extended use.
        True from a physical standpoint, however, I'd like to offer information regarding this practice. The California Highway Patrol issue weapon for years was a .357 revolver. Over a several year period, the Patrol lost a number of officers in major firefights. In combat, the officers were NOT hitting their targets. It was found the officers were using .38 rounds in their weapons to qualify in order to 'save their wrists' and more so, money. Once back on duty, they would load up with .357 rounds. The practice was determined to be leading to the death of officers.

        The moral here: Practice like you play and you'll play like you practiced.

        Fred
        Last edited by Pherdie; 11-29-2010, 07:09 PM.

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        • #19
          .RC., Adult human and, possibly, adult mountain lion.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Pherdie
            The moral here: Practice like you play and you'll play like you practiced.

            Fred
            Fred, you bring up a question I asked someone this morning. "Should I just get a revolver chambered for .38 special?" I don't like the idea of practicing with one cartridge and using another for self-defence.

            I don't have a problem shooting .357 Magnum cartridges except for the expense. .38 special ammo isn't tooooo expensive.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Fasttrack
              I would say you don't need one. Statistically (and you all are going to hate me and argue this point), you are more likely to be shot and killed if you carry a handgun than if you are unarmed.
              Citation needed.

              You are far more likely to survive a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun. In episodes where a robbery victim was injured, the injury/defense rates were:
              Resisting with a gun 6%
              Did nothing at all 25%
              Resisted with a knife 40%
              Non-violent resistance 45%
              -British Home Office

              Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
              -Targeting Guns, Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University, Aldine, 1997

              Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of these instances is the gun ever actually fired.
              -National Crime Victimization Survey, 2000, Bureau of Justice Statistics, BATF estimates on handgun supply

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pgmrdan
                Fred, you bring up a question I asked someone this morning. "Should I just get a revolver chambered for .38 special?" I don't like the idea of practicing with one cartridge and using another for self-defence.

                I don't have a problem shooting .357 Magnum cartridges except for the expense. .38 special ammo isn't tooooo expensive.
                Reload and you can have the best of both worlds using the .357 as the basic platform, tailoring ammunition to your specific needs. An inexpensive Lee rig will pay for itself the first couple of visits to the range.

                And it's fun, LOL.

                Randy C

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                • #23
                  I don't have a problem shooting .357 Magnum cartridges except for the expense. .38 special ammo isn't tooooo expensive.
                  If economy is your concern, then go the .38 special. Whatever you buy in a gun, you need to put several hundred rounds through it to attain proficiency and make sure the weapon is operating properly.

                  In all honesty, I support the others in whether a handgun is the right answer for your needs (especially Fasttracks comments). Drawing a gun is the last point of escalation and brandishing a weapon as a threat is insane (which I'm sure you wouldn't do). If a lion wants to attack you, you'll never know until it's on your back. As for your two legged foe, maybe trek on down to Harbor Freight for some pepper spray and other goodies, it's cheaper and safer, especially if it winds up getting used on you (like a gun could).

                  Again, good luck in your decision, what ever course you take.

                  Fred

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by pgmrdan
                    Fred, you bring up a question I asked someone this morning. "Should I just get a revolver chambered for .38 special?" I don't like the idea of practicing with one cartridge and using another for self-defence.

                    I don't have a problem shooting .357 Magnum cartridges except for the expense. .38 special ammo isn't tooooo expensive.
                    If you spend the time and money to take extended training somewhere, you might find yourself shooting 750-1000 rounds over a weekend.

                    Decreased energy training rounds are available in just about any caliber as are increased energy self defense rounds. If you spend a day at the range, go through a few boxes of the lighter stuff and end the range trip with a few cylinders of what you plan to carry. Your wrists and wallet will thank you for the lighter stuff and your mental preparedness will thank you for the the heavier stuff. A side benefit to using the hotter rounds at the end of the day is that cleanup is easier once they blast out the leading from the training rounds.

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                    • #25
                      Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun.
                      That is utter nonsense. If they didn't happen you cannot count them.

                      Dan,

                      A Ruger Security Six is a decent weapon and very easy to handle. It strips without tools and fires 38 and .357 rounds. It will stop a cougar just fine if you can stay calm enough to aim. Cougars aren't very heavy, no more than a human. Just shooting near the animal will scare it away. If you have climbable trees make sure you keep an eye on them when out on the property. Every year people are attacked here and this year was especially bad. We spotted cougar within 100 feet of the house twice this year and my wife nearly ran it over driving to work one morning. One day this summer I stepped out on the back deck and heard the unmistakeable yowl of a cougar nearby. I never saw him that time but he was no more than 50 feet away.

                      I carry a cut down 12 guage that I keep ready. First load is 00 buck and a solid slug is next. I used to have a Ruger 6 but it's too much hassle to take anywhere unless you belong to the local club.

                      Don't buy a weapon to defend yourself from people outside. You kill somebody outside and you will go to prison unless they shoot you first.
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                      • #26
                        Yep, my main concern is unknowingly walking in on someone inside my house. That's why I want the gun in my truck when I get home at night. It doesn't do much good to have a good short-barreled 12 gauge in the house while some undesirable is in the house and I'm in the truck empty handed.

                        My second concern is someone breaking in at night. My handgun would be my weapon until I get to the shotgun.

                        From other reading I've done the best things to have for defence are a shotgun and a big dog. I already have those.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Evan
                          That is utter nonsense. If they didn't happen you cannot count them.

                          Dan,

                          A Ruger Security Six is a decent weapon and very easy to handle. It strips without tools and fires 38 and .357 rounds. It will stop a cougar just fine if you can stay calm enough to aim. Cougars aren't very heavy, no more than a human. Just shooting near the animal will scare it away. If you have climbable trees make sure you keep an eye on them when out on the property. Every year people are attacked here and this year was especially bad. We spotted cougar within 100 feet of the house twice this year and my wife nearly ran it over driving to work one morning. One day this summer I stepped out on the back deck and heard the unmistakeable yowl of a cougar nearby. I never saw him that time but he was no more than 50 feet away.

                          I carry a cut down 12 guage that I keep ready. First load is 00 buck and a solid slug is next. I used to have a Ruger 6 but it's too much hassle to take anywhere unless you belong to the local club.

                          Don't buy a weapon to defend yourself from people outside. You kill somebody outside and you will go to prison unless they shoot you first.
                          Who would want to scare off or shoot a cougar???? I have had lots of fun with them in years past.

                          My personal favorite, is to just throw your wallet on the ground. When they bend over to pick it up, they get a size eleven in the teeth, and then beaten to within an inch of their life. Left for some Good Samaritan to find and help. If they die in the meantime who cares, no loss to society. If they survive, they may think twice before trying it again. If you don't use a weapon, you aren't obligated to stick around to file a report.

                          Pepper spray is no real defense. Watching the door at my buddies bar one night I was sprayed with that crap. I severely beat the ***** out of the guy who used it on me. Someone determined, ready for it or drugged till his eyes are bugging out of his head, will not be deterred from harming you. They will harm you worse, because you will have pissed them off.

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                          • #28
                            Fasttrack said:
                            I would say you don't need one. Statistically (and you all are going to hate me and argue this point), you are more likely to be shot and killed if you carry a handgun than if you are unarmed.

                            Furthermore, the psychological impact of taking another person's life can be great. I understand defending one's self or one's loved ones, but I would much rather hand over my wallet than risk either killing or being killed
                            You do need a citation to back up your "Statistically..."

                            Personally, I'd lots rather deal with the psychological impact of taking another's life than dealing with my own death or injury. Sure, I'd probably give up my wallet IF that would get the thief to leave.

                            To the O.P.: I began carrying a 3" Kimber M1911, found it too heavy and bulky, went to a Smith Scandium framed .357, which is light enough, but a bit 'fat', and finally to a Ruger LCP in .380 with a Crimson Trace laser. I'd rather carry the Kimber or any other M1911, but it ain't gonna happen. The best gun to carry is the one on your person, not the one in the gun safe.

                            The LCP is right next to my cell phone and keys; when I leave the shop, it's in my pocket, every single time. Every single time, ALWAYS. In my area, it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever need it, and I don't visit places where a need would be likely. However, I'm extremely careful about fire hazards, too, but I still have extinguishers all over the place.

                            I've had more than one police officer tell me to always carry, ALWAYS, as you'll never know when/where you might need it. If I considered it a bit more likely to encounter trouble, I'd probably carry the Kimber.

                            To anyone wanting the facts on guns and gun control, the best source I know of is http://www.gunfacts.info/ This treatise is well-organized by topic, and all statistics come from sources such as FBI, DOJ, etc. In fact, this file debunks the statement by Fasttrack, above.

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                            • #29
                              Personally if you are having second thoughts I don't think you should as there are a number of non-lethal alternatives that can be very effective.

                              But if you do decide to "carry", you owe it to yourself and your family to read a book which has become a classic for those about to enter a situation of which most know very little. The book is titled, In the Gravest Extreme, by Massad Ayoob, an ex policeman and firearms/self defense instructor. It covers what many take for granted, the emotional and legal toll associated when one has taken another human being's life.
                              It's after the victim of your shot hits the floor, when the real hell begins.
                              Think carefully before you take someone's life, in court the perp's lawyer will do whatever it takes to make his deceased client look like the victim.
                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                              Location: British Columbia

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                              • #30
                                Who would want to scare off or shoot a cougar????
                                They like to eat things. Last year in this valley we lost 3 Alpaca, two sheep and a dog or two killed. One in our yard I spotted was nose to nose with our malamute when I stepped out. Two years ago a child was killed, a few years before that a mother died defending her children. A older fellow was attacked and nearly killed on Vancouver island. He managed to get out his pocket knife while it was gnawing on his head and cut it's throat. It ripped off a good part of his face though. Just a few weeks ago another cougar was stalking a bow hunter. He managed to shoot it but not kill it. They tracked and killed it. It is thought to be the same cat that was seen several times close to a nearby school.
                                Last edited by Evan; 11-29-2010, 07:34 PM.
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