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OT: Handguns.

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  • #61
    Everything I have read and been taught recommended a minimum of .357 or a .40 cal for self defense carry.

    Personally, I wouldn't carry a .357 or similarly powerful handgun loaded with anything but hollow points. Consider the danger presented by rounds that can pass completely through the target.

    Anyone who has aspirations of being a cowboy needs to forget about owning a gun. Killing is serious business. Stealing my lawnmower isn't justification for killing a thief. Imminent threat to life should be the only justification for killing. Disagree all you want....

    If you aren't committed to getting and staying familiar with the operation of your chosen firearm, don't own one. Count on the cops and prayer. The latter will probably be more useful.

    Your accuracy and ability to shoot in an emergency situation degrade rapidly if you don't shoot often. You'd be surprised how often I see people close their eyes just as they pull the trigger. Practice.

    A few years ago, a buddy won our state tactical handgun competition. He said that most LEOs couldn't even qualify. I am sure there are exceptions.

    Dirk

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    • #62
      Well, then there is the:

      combo Taser & MP3 player, with leopard skin finish, of course...

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      • #63
        Pgmrdan, from what you have posted I agree with others that you should find a gun shop with a range and try some pistols. I prefer the M1911 .45 but it's to big to carry concealed. My next choice is the S&W Chief Special .38. It's compact and I load mine with hollow points and I have a CC permit.

        It is VERY important to be extremely familiar with the gun you choose and shoot it until your very comfortable with it. It's also and good idea to unload it and practice drawing it from the CC holster you choose until you can draw it with easy from any position and during any movement. Your life may depend on it.

        It's also a good idea to practice drawing with the other hand. That is, if your right handed and carry it inside your pants in a holster practice drawing it upside down with your left hand and dry firing it. That too may save your life.

        It's better to be extremely proficient with your gun than barely able to handle it. Take the CC course, learn what you can and can't do to defend yourself. Then carry it all the time and most importantly be aware that you are carrying it.
        Last edited by Carld; 11-29-2010, 10:44 PM.
        It's only ink and paper

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        • #64
          A firearm is a tool, just like a lathe or milling machine. If you aren't proficient in its use, particularly under stress, you're going to have poor results. If you decide to get, and more importantly carry a handgun for defensive purposes, first do yourself and the world a favor and get proficient with it. Taking a handgun safety course will not make you proficient, it will only insure that you know how to operate the weapon safely. Proficiency takes practice, lots of it. I've been shooting action pistol regularly for a few years now, and while I don't consider myself a good shot, I'm WAY better than I was when I started. My first time on an action pistol course was an eye opener, to put it mildly. Finally, when you have attained a level of proficency you are comfortable with, are you prepared to face the legal, moral, and social responsibilites and possible consequences that come with carrying and/or deploying a lethal weapon? If you are in doubt on any count, you should probably pass.

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          • #65
            A compromise might be the new Kel Tec PMR30. I have had mine for a few weeks now and I love the gun. It is a semi auto chambered in .22 Mag (WMR), with a 30 round magazine (2 of them) and fiber-optic match sights. It is very accurate and a pretty good trigger. It's not quite as cheep to shoot as the .22 LR but the ballistics go way up and getting closer to those of the 38 Spcl. It would be great to dispatch a nasty old groundhog and could be considered (with 30 rounds) to be closer to a real self-defence gun.
            "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."~ Thomas Jefferson

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            • #66
              This is what I would pack

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3tUg6Dj1Y
              Precision takes time.

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              • #67
                All due respect to poster or posters above but I can't imagine that 15 rounds of hollow point bullets from a 9mm handgun won't stop someone. That's an awful lot of lead. Maybe even one round between the eyes would handle matters. It seems to work on the streets here in Sacramento when the gangs shoot at one another.

                My two favorites, and I've been shooting for many years, are the 9mm Beretta Model 92 and my stainless steel .22 WMR Taurus 8 shot. The 357 is also a wonderful cartridge, excellent for defense, but I haven't got one of those. I live in a rural area and I prefer having a shotgun handy for burglar duty at home.

                Unfortunately, they won't allow CCW permits here. That only prevents us honest folks from carrying weapons. The crooks haven't heard about that.

                .
                Last edited by gnm109; 11-30-2010, 10:21 AM.

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                • #68
                  I'll stop munching on my popcorn for a moment and before the thread is locked, as it invariably will be, say that I've never understood the American fascination with guns. I always love the justification that it's for "personal protection" ... "just wait a minute Mr Mugger, I have my Glock here somewhere ... scratch scratch scratch ... yeah yeah, just wait a moment, I know you want my wallet but when I find my 'piece' THEN I'll show you who's boss ... scratch scratch scratch, now where the heck did I put that thing ... just wait, my memory's not like it was you know!"

                  If somebody is holding a weapon to me they can have my wallet, if they were going to kill me they would have done it already. As for breaking into my house, I'll help them load my TV if it means that much. Where I live we have insurance! As for protecting from "cougars" WTF Look up the number of accidental shootings in the US! Particularly the comparison of children killed by accidental firearm discharge versus children killed by being mauled by cougars!

                  Anyway, back to my popcorn

                  BTW yes I have used firearms quite a lot some years ago. And yes I have lived in areas where humans are most definitely NOT top of the food chain, so over-sized pu$$y cats don't rate I'm afraid. If you want a gun to shoot at xxxx then fair enough, just don't try to kid yourself or anyone else that it's for "personal protection".
                  Last edited by PeteF; 11-30-2010, 12:41 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Most gun manufacturers have guns made specifically for conceal and carry use. I found two to start with.

                    www.smith-wesson.com is one.
                    www.taurususa.com/whats-new.cfm is another.



                    FWIW
                    Lenord

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by PeteF
                      I'll stop munching on my popcorn for a moment and before the thread is locked, as it invariably will be,
                      Maybe not, Pete. The OP asked for suggestions and advice and he is receiving it. Not every discussion on this forum has to degenerate into a slugfest to prove who is RIGHT.
                      If you want a gun to shoot at xxxx then fair enough, just don't try to kid yourself or anyone else that it's for "personal protection".
                      Maybe where you live. I'd suggest that the news in the US is biased against any positive reporting of defensive use of firearms, but I'd sound like one of those gun nuts.

                      http://gunowners.org/sk0205.htm

                      Dirk

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                      • #71
                        Dirk, it's always possible to find isolated incidents counter the trend to help push one's barrow; I'd hardly call gunowners.org impartial It reminds me of those who try to argue that seatbelts in cars are "dangerous" and quote the few cases where people not wearing them have been thrown clear in a major accident in an attempt to justify their argument.

                        I've spent quite a bit of time in the US but from an outsider's perspective I'm just saying I find the typical excuses to own/carry a firearm simply bizarre. Yet some get absolutely fanatical (on both sides of the argument) about the topic. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING I will say here is going to change anyone's opinion one iota, so I won't even attempt to try. But I'd leave those clinging to the tenuous excuse that they "need" a firearm for self-defence with this thought/scenario. You're walking along with your wife minding your own business. I walk up behind you and stick something in your back and tell you it's a gun. You believe me (it is). I demand your wallet, but lucky for you you're carrying your trusty concealed weapon. Do you seriously, SERIOUSLY mean to tell me that with a cocked gun in your back you're going to reach for your own weapon, swing around, and accurately discharge it? Indeed apparently numerous times by all accounts of some stories told here. Precisely how many times do you think I would have shot you by then? Up to that stage you'd lost your wallet and had a heck of a scare. Or does the scenario conclude that you hand over your wallet, and as I'm running off you then swing around and a gun fight breaks out like in a B grade western movie? I think you guys have been watching too much Hollywood, it's not real you know!

                        As I said, just 2 cents from an outsider looking on in bemusement. Carry on
                        Last edited by PeteF; 11-30-2010, 01:32 AM.

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                        • #72
                          Here's one way it could go down...

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0D78JtxmqI
                          Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor

                          www.garagegunsmithing.com

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                          • #73
                            Pete, I appreciate your opinions, and out of deference to the OP, I'll make this my last post in what is becoming OT to the original thread.

                            Find me an unbiased person anywhere, on any topic that matters to them.

                            The scenarios you present are indeed, indefensible for the victim. There are others that are not. The thugs and gangsters here are shooting real bullets, Pete. Nothing Hollywood about it.

                            You have discounted the credibility of my link. Okay.

                            From a personal standpoint, I have a right and a duty to do anything I can to defend my family and to the extent possible, my neighbors.

                            I grieved for the Husband/father and victims of those two animals(edit: who went on trial)in CT this year. It is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but there is a strong possibility that when the police arrived here a half hour after they learned what was happening, there would have been a different outcome. Maybe not. I simply believe in stacking all odds possible in my favor. If that seems ridiculous, so be it.

                            Dirk
                            Last edited by Picoprecision; 11-30-2010, 01:56 AM.

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                            • #74
                              The "odds" game is a slippery one to pin down, people need to make their own choice and that's that, and realize their choice can effect others there trying to "protect" in either a good or bad way.
                              there are arguments for and against.


                              I will add this - crooks are like terrorists -- if both you and they are armed then they hold the trump card no matter what, its called the element of surprise.

                              They can even make out against a very experienced individual without either the trump card OR the firearm,

                              Yesterday a semi-local police officer was put to rest - he pulled a car over that was stolen - he and the unarmed occupant got into a scuffle and the officers own gun was used against him, 3 times, this was a veteran of the force and a pretty big in-shape guy to boot.


                              Guns are by no means a "cure all" and it's important to recognize they come with their own set of problems.
                              Same as not owning one...

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                              • #75
                                *shrugs* I just live my life without fear of being muged by armed (and with body armor?) gangsters hell bent on murdering me in the street for no apparent reason.
                                Its worked so far I guess. Maybe its just where I live or something, Or maybe its the fact im many times more likey to be run over by a car, or killed by someone I know, Or slip and fall and smash my head open on the cement stairs like I did last week. Weird thing was, I was 5' away from the stairs at the time going the other way, Turned around because I forgot something in the house and sliped head first into a stair.

                                I really gotta watch out for ice more often, Think maybe with a gun I could shoot the ice? Sorry, Just trying to be ontopic with this post.

                                http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html
                                Apparently cars account for 1.8% while firearms are only 1.2% overall.
                                Influenza and Pneumonia account for 2.7%, Making dying from encountering someone with a cold more likey then encountering someone with a gun.

                                Major Cardiovasular Diseases ranks 39% overall. I should REALLY eat better if I plan on getting killed some other way.
                                Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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