Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT: Handguns.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • George Bulliss
    replied
    I have kept an eye on this thread since it started last night and have been surprised that, with only a few exceptions, it has been pretty civil. I don’t see that lasting forever though and am going to lock it now.

    George

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When they took the guns away in Australia,I understand robberies increased a lot.
    That is complete and utter BS!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrDan
    replied
    Originally posted by garagemark
    There are several ways to cure flinch (which can happen to just about anyone). My favorite is to have my wife load the gun (revolver). She will load some .38's, some .357 mag loads, and some empty chambers. God only knows what she might put in it. I have seen times when she put NO shells in the chambers, and other times straight up hot stuff... and everything else in between.

    She does the same drill for my .44 mag hunting pistol as well (I gave up rifle hunting years ago).

    Done enough times, it will cure the flinch. At least it did for me.
    I'd say it will help an experienced shooter. Not sure on a new shooter but it is a MIGHTY fine drill. For a minute there I thought your wife was loading up your 357 and shooting at you. I know I'd flinch!

    Leave a comment:


  • garagemark
    replied
    There are several ways to cure flinch (which can happen to just about anyone). My favorite is to have my wife load the gun (revolver). She will load some .38's, some .357 mag loads, and some empty chambers. God only knows what she might put in it. I have seen times when she put NO shells in the chambers, and other times straight up hot stuff... and everything else in between.

    She does the same drill for my .44 mag hunting pistol as well (I gave up rifle hunting years ago).

    Done enough times, it will cure the flinch. At least it did for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    Originally posted by vpt
    If everyone carried a gun would anybody be robbed any more?

    Would planes get highjacked, gas stations get robbed, etc?
    The DOJ does have data that spans the last thirty odd years showing a decline in violent crime coinciding with an increase in CC permits.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrDan
    replied
    I guess we could talk about abortion and religion and make this a passionate trifecta... Maybe not.

    For qualifications, I shoot between 3-5000 rounds per year and have trained dozens of new shooters. I own and operate my own range and do some light gunsmithing, progressing towards heavier as I learn more here. I probably own any gun that will come up here.

    First point, being unsure isn't an automatic disqualification for doing anything new. I'd still be living at home nursing mothers milk if that were the case. You're unsure if you want a handgun. You're cautiously curious. Good, nice place to start, I was there with machining a year ago.

    It's hard to find good information on guns one way or the other. Either you are offensively pro-gun, or offensively anti-gun. We've seen some examples of both here. Since you are on the web, might I suggest something free. There are a few good pro-gun podcasts available, one being The Proarms Podcast which features as a major contributor Masaad Ayoob. I had hear bad things about Masaad in the past and for a lifetime have avoided whatever he had to say. Having heard him on the podacast, I'm sorry for the time I missed. The guy is VERY factual and is a walking historian. All of the people on the podcast are very successful and well educated. The topics range all over but you can pick the ones that apply most to you. You can listen as you drive or in your shop or whatever rather than listening to the radio. With podcasts, I haven't turned on the radio in years. Did I mention they are free?

    Another podcast that I enjoy is The Gun Dudes. You'll accidentally learn something there. Mostly they are entertaining and learning sorta sneaks in while you're laughing. These are the kind of people you wish you could talk to, who aren't "gun nuts", just the guys next door who enjoys shooting and can answer your questions.

    As for what gun to buy. Many of the old truisms of needing a 45 because it's big, or 38s won't kill people, my buddy the cop said so, etc. are exactly that, OLD. Much of the knowledge was correct at the time it was originally stated but much has changed since then. A 380 was considered to be a bad choice for a defensive round for quite a long time. Even a 9mm has had a bad reputation. The difference in today's ammunition and that of the past is dramatic.

    I've noticed that if you ask someone like myself who is a civilian what to carry, the conversation will drift off into calibers, 45s, round capacity, etc. If you ask someone who carries for a living, they will often ask what the gun weighs and does it work EVERY TIME. Past that, they don't much care. Talking guns with a gun nut is like talking baseball with a baseball fanatic. I don't know what Barry Bonds batting average is and I don't know the feet per second on my defensive round. I don't care and if I did, it bores normal people.

    Statistically, you'll carry your revolver for thousands and thousands of days. Statistically, you'll never fire it in anger. If you do fire the gun in anger, it will be because you chose to carry it every day, not because it's a 45. Pick a gun that you can and will carry comfortably every day. If it's a 380, fine. If it's a 45, fine. Just have something, that's 99% of the battle, and with deference to Yogi, training is the other 50%.

    It's been mentioned here that "because a cop says" this, or a "cop says that". I went to college for criminal justice, on track to be a federal marshal. Many of my friends are police both state and federal. Guys, most department have VERY limited training budgets. Shooting is about 1% of what makes a cop a cop. There are MANY statistics showing that as a group they do not score very well in shooting situations. In my last CCW class there was a cop the instructor deferred to constantly because he was a cop. He failed his written and his shooting test, a test I literally shot left handed just to make it fun because it's so easy. Being a cop doesn't make you a gun expert just like being a pilot doesn't make you an ornithologist. There are master level shooters who are cops, but being a cop doesn't make you a shooter.

    Btw, I can count three occasions where I needed and thankfully had a gun to defend myself or others in my lifetime. I never fired a shot and all is well. Not quoted facts, personal experience.

    That's the long answer. Short answer is, if you'll train and practice, buy whatever you'll carry and like. If you won't train and practice period, go take karate or something. If you'll at least go once a year to the range, buy a small 357 revolver. Shoot 38s in it all day at the range, and 357s for the last rounds. If shooting the wrong loads made your a worse shot, then dry firing wouldn't make you a better shot.

    Leave a comment:


  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by PeteF

    If somebody is holding a weapon to me they can have my wallet, if they were going to kill me they would have done it already. As for breaking into my house, I'll help them load my TV if it means that much. Where I live we have insurance! As for protecting from "cougars" WTF Look up the number of accidental shootings in the US! Particularly the comparison of children killed by accidental firearm discharge versus children killed by being mauled by cougars!
    That choice is not denied you just because you are armed. You are cherry picking situational decisions. Personally I'd rather have the option you don't, but it is a mistake, as the observer (you) and as the one in possession of this option (me), to consider it the first choice for every situation. It is especially bad if the bad guy always thinks it is always your first choice as it makes their first choice in opening the encounter more impactful.

    I would be more inclined to get killed in defense of my wife than in defense of myself, but I'd also try harder to be the second one to die (the perp being the first) in that situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • saltmine
    replied
    A 12 gage shotgun would be my first choice for "home defense". As far as "carry & conceal" goes, I'd be more inclined to hauling around a Taurus Judge (45-70/.410) or a good 'ol 1911 Colt ACP.45. I had a Sergeant once tell me that a .45 was the best "self defense" weapon because if you couldn't knock somebody down with 7 rounds, you could always beat them to death with it.

    I have both. With a rash of home invasion roberies lately, I can only hope some dirtbag gives me the chance to use one of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKman
    replied
    Originally posted by gwilson
    We KNEW a very liberal(non gun) family...

    We're a very liberal (three gun) family.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rustybolt
    replied
    Originally posted by PeteF
    Dirk, it's always possible to find isolated incidents counter the trend to help push one's barrow; I'd hardly call gunowners.org impartial It reminds me of those who try to argue that seatbelts in cars are "dangerous" and quote the few cases where people not wearing them have been thrown clear in a major accident in an attempt to justify their argument.

    I've spent quite a bit of time in the US but from an outsider's perspective I'm just saying I find the typical excuses to own/carry a firearm simply bizarre. Yet some get absolutely fanatical (on both sides of the argument) about the topic. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING I will say here is going to change anyone's opinion one iota, so I won't even attempt to try. But I'd leave those clinging to the tenuous excuse that they "need" a firearm for self-defence with this thought/scenario. You're walking along with your wife minding your own business. I walk up behind you and stick something in your back and tell you it's a gun. You believe me (it is). I demand your wallet, but lucky for you you're carrying your trusty concealed weapon. Do you seriously, SERIOUSLY mean to tell me that with a cocked gun in your back you're going to reach for your own weapon, swing around, and accurately discharge it? Indeed apparently numerous times by all accounts of some stories told here. Precisely how many times do you think I would have shot you by then? Up to that stage you'd lost your wallet and had a heck of a scare. Or does the scenario conclude that you hand over your wallet, and as I'm running off you then swing around and a gun fight breaks out like in a B grade western movie? I think you guys have been watching too much Hollywood, it's not real you know!

    As I said, just 2 cents from an outsider looking on in bemusement. Carry on


    I worked in an area of Chicago where it was a crime to be white. You never went out to the fenced in parking lot alone and you never went out unarmed. As other did, who worked in that area, I had a "work" car a Datsun B210. On more than one occasion it had bullet holes in it when I left to go home at night.
    You didn't go out in the morning saying to yourself,I hope I don't have to shoot somebody. You go out hoping you don't get shot.
    As I said, 99.79 % of the time all you need to is let the bad guy know you're armed and they'll go away.
    You don't want to get hurt. He doesn't want to get hurt. He'll go find somebody that isn't packing.
    The frightening thing recently is latino gangs whos initiation includes going out and gunning down a stranger.


    Hey! It's the U.S. get over it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by jdunmyer
    PeteF,
    There's one very good reason that many Americans carry a concealed weapon:

    Because we can.

    That's good enough for me.

    Fair enough.

    ***

    Thanks GarageMark and Willy - I really enjoyed your posts. A lot of good, level-headed advice there.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazlo
    replied
    I've never understood the American fascination with guns.
    It's a cultural thing. Same reason we're very attached to our cars, especially giant trucks and SUV's

    I've been reading Leon Kapp's "The Craft of the Japanese Sword", and he was remarking how the katana is a cultural icon to the Japanese in the same way that the gun is to Americans.
    The Japanese are raised with stories of Samurai and swordfighting, and we're raised with stories of the Wild West and the Alamo and the O.K. Corral.

    Originally posted by garagemark
    Oh, and if you have to talk yourself into a sidearm- save your time and money.
    I think that's the best advice I've seen. Go to a gun shop with a range, try out several handguns. I think that experience alone will make the decision for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • garagemark
    replied
    Perhaps some of you watch too many cop shows or movies. Armed defense isn't like TV in real life. Been there- but have little need of re-living it. It was just bad for everyone involved.

    A firefight will not last for 15 rounds, or usually even six rounds- unless you are stupid. And if you ARE stupid enough to stand there for a 15 round exchange, you are more than likely dead and not reading this anyway. **** happens fast. Too fast. Assuming you can even think that fast. Good cops train for years to think that fast. You do not. I do not. Bad cops die young.

    Unless you fire hundreds of rounds a week under similar pressured circumstances, you probably couldn't re-acquire your target after the first shot, much less after two. After that you simply fire wildly. Your heart is pounding through your chest. Your adrenaline is in overdrive. You are scared! Anyone who thinks it would be different is purely kidding themselves. Yeah, we'd all like to think we would just do it for the good of our family- and some of you might be able to pull it off. But it isn't as cut and dried as just pulling the ol' piece out and shooting someone.

    I am well armed at home, and carry a concealed piece. I carry mostly for animal protection in the woods when trout fishing in the mountains. I shoot many rounds at a given session and reload for it. Until recently I could dance a tin can along the ground for six rounds (my eyes and reflexes are waning a bit). But nothing could prepare me for what actually happened a few years ago. I survived... but that’s about all. It’s always in the back of my mind.

    But enough of that. Assuming you are cowboy enough, the best home defense round I have EVER found is a .38 special case, a few grains of Bullseye (don’t remember the exact measure, but spit it out at about 850-900 FPS), a magnum primer, and a 148 grain hollow base wadcutter with a copper skirt loaded upside down (seated flush with the case mouth, slight crimp). The skirt prevents leading in the barrel, and the hollow side up will expand like crazy at short range. The slower speed also makes for a more controllable gun and a bullet that does not do as much peripheral damage to the surroundings. It WILL open a hell of a gash in a human though. Gun size is your choice- whatever you are comfortable with. I use one of two S&W model 66’s, but any .38 revolver would do the job. Yes, I prefer a revolver.

    Oh, and if you have to talk yourself into a sidearm- save your time and money.

    Leave a comment:


  • Willy
    replied
    The shotgun is my first pick as well.
    Not only more accurate in a stressful situation but more important is the fact that it will not over penetrate a building.
    Once a round leaves the barrel of a high powered handgun or rifle there's no calling it back. The person in the next room or two houses down could conceivably be an unintended victim.

    Leave a comment:


  • gwilson
    replied
    Shotgun IS BEST,IF you are in your house where you can keep 1 handy.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X