Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Enco and QC

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    THEY are paying for return shipping? How did you DO that?

    They made ME pay to ship back bad goods...... THEY didn't pay a nickel, and I paid to ship them TO me also. So I was on the hook for ALL the shipping, despite THEIR product being crappy.
    I'm thinking its because I got it to me originally free shipping so the free shipping just continues.

    Ummm? Guess what? Yup, number two is also a lil orange. I actually took this one out of the plastic (didn't the first one it was so bad) to see if it would clean up. Its acceptable, orange turned into some small dark lines. Ill live with it and move on. Too many other things to do than chit-chat with Enco about a replacement.

    To be honest, I still enjoy shopping at Enco and I truly believe we will see some higher quality items being sold by Enco and others coming out of India. Some day, just not this day. JR

    First one. It was like this on all sides.



    Rough angle plate. There are two options. Machined and precision ground. This is definitely ground. Or would that be dragged, like behind the UPS truck.



    Next to an Indian ground surface. Maybe the Chinese could use some lessons from the Indian company. Just kidding. It ALL falls on Enco's shoulders. Back to QC and that was the purpose of this thread. Hey look. My slag covered hot rolled plate steel work bench has a better finish. Its all good. I'm a lil disappointed but not pissed. Off to tackle some other issues that are more important......



    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Bob:

    What you say is true. What the folks you choose to "call" racists say is ALSO true.

    it's really simple.......

    Companies GO to china or India in the first place to reduce their costs...... getting anything made there is cheaper than here, or most anywhere else. Everyone knows that.

    So you START OUT knowing that the company selling the product is trying to make money by buying from the cheapest possible source.

    The problem is that, as I can vouch for from personal experience, it is VERY HARD to get goods that are the "next rung up" in quality. I have been pressed hard by the chinese sources (I worked at one time for a company that sourced in china) to accept lower quality because the cost was less.

    On top of that, the chinese company would sometimes simply make the units the cheaper way anyhow, and then basically stand there and say "who ya gonna call? here's your stuff, you gotta have it, it will be months before you can replace it, quit complaining and accept it". They didn't actually say that directly, but that is the real story on how it worked.

    if you ever accepted that, EVERY shipment would be made to that lower standard forever after.

    Every sample would need to be fully evaluated, even if only a small correction was made..... If you did not do that, and there was a problem with the shipment,. the vendor would say "you accepted a sample just like that". And when you look, it is true..... the problems you had got fixed before were back in the new sample, and you are stuck with the shipment.

    What it means is that the chinese businesspeople are pretty sharp, they know how to "work" american customers, and they know what they can get away with.

    From another angle, they are, or at that time only a few years ago, were, still learning the manufacturing biz..... they had to take uneducated farm workers and make them high tech manufacturing workers..... in no time. And then they had to do it again, because 25% of their workers might not come back after chinese new year, they went to Shanghai to get a better job.

    You can have the nicest factories in the world, and the chinese do have a lot of those..... but at the end of the day, workers put the products together, and in china it is simply hard, and getting harder to find qualified workers. they move on as soon as they get to be good, because they can get paid more, and maybe get out of the hot sweaty factory.

    Plus, in both china and India, and most of asia and the east, manual work is low class, everyone wants to be a white collar worker at least. Factory work is no longer the only thing going, and is no longer desirable even to uneducated farmers.

    Both effects mean that it was harder to get complex products made to spec. I suppose that to still be the case, with the secondary and tertiary level manufacturing companies that are involved with this sort of product. Top quality factories pay well and keep good workers.

    It isn't racism, it is a realistic assessment of the state of manufacturing and business practices in asia.

    And the result is that often the products are second or third class, made in low budget factories, or even by piece work at home, by workers who are not skilled, and are poorly trained and low paid.

    India is merely china with 25 years less experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • bob ward
    replied
    Originally posted by Amigo
    The stuff coming out of India seems to be worse than any of the post war goods that ever came out of far East Asia.
    Having spent a couple weeks on a couple consulting jobs in India a few years ago I was able to observe first hand their "manufacturing" processes. In a word.....Crude. The more moving parts in a product, the worse it gets. Example: Parts that should be heat treated are, in a rather unique way. Held with bamboo tongs over a dung fire till smoked tinged and then dipped in used oil of dubious origin.
    And I'm sure we could all have a good chuckle over the manufacturing processes of our forbears in conditions of grinding poverty not too many years ago.

    The problem is not with Indian manufacturers, but they are a convenient scapegoat for the unthinking, the xenophobes and racists, not that I'm suggesting any forum members fall into those categories. The problem is with, as JRouche alluded in his title, Enco's QC, or rather lack thereof. Do you really think Enco don't know the quality of what they are buying for resale? Do you really think Enco have QC standards that keep getting flouted? Do you think those f'n Indians keep putting one over Enco, container after container after container?

    That's BS guys. You can't run an organisation like Enco (or Grizzly or HF or Shars) without a business plan, without knowing EXACTLY what you are doing, ie buy as cheap as cheap as possible. Quality control? No thanks, that will push up our buying price. All over India there are desperately poor people trying to weld sh*t to clay with coathanger wire to make parts for Enco. They are making what Enco wants, what Enco orders, don't blame them or 'India' for the poor quality of some of Enco's products, place any blame for poor quality product squarely on Enco's shoulders. Now where are they headquartered?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    A new low for Enco, Indian made items. I've also noticed that the replacement policy isn't as flexible as it used to be. If something was damaged (UPS or Enco packaging problem), they used to tell you to keep or discard it, your choice and ship you a replacement. They don't seem to be as trusting anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • tlfamm
    replied
    I generally find Indian-made goods to be of unacceptable quality - and routinely send them back to the retailer. HSM-related products from that source are often coated with a distinctive-smelling petroleum product. One whiff, and I know that a return is likely in the offing. I've sent back about 75% of such products from Enco - pure laziness (and low-dollar amount) kept the figure below 100%.

    To be fair: I have received a few acceptable Indian-manufactured items from Grizzly, but basically, I won't knowingly purchase Indian goods. If Enco provided the country of origin for their products, I doubt many from India could be sold.

    ------------------------

    My biggest Enco disappointment: a set of spring-calipers sold with the "General" label - I bought them to expand a set I purchased decades ago, and which were quite nice. General Hardware has obviously outsourced some of their production to India (marked so on the packaging), and the new items were inferior in fit and finish. I didn't even pull them out of the clear-plastic pouches: back to Enco they went.

    I called General to confirm that someone hadn't stolen the company's trademark. Nope: General has created a separate entity, "General Hardware, Ltd." to peddle off-shore goods.


    Caveat emptor ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Amigo
    Forgot to mention something else about Enco. The SPI brand calipers they sell at 2x to 3x the price, would be identical to the "import" brand calipers, if it weren't for the "SPI" label. Had a chance to examine them side by side under high magnification.

    Quite right. Apparently they are all made in the same alley in Singapore or Hong Kong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Amigo
    replied
    Forgot to mention something else about Enco. The SPI brand calipers they sell at 2x to 3x the price, would be identical to the "import" brand calipers, if it weren't for the "SPI" label. Had a chance to examine them side by side under high magnification.

    Leave a comment:


  • lakeside53
    replied
    I wanted to send back some junk India tooling.. Enco told me to keep them, and credited my credit card for the tools and shipping.

    Leave a comment:


  • Amigo
    replied
    The stuff coming out of India seems to be worse than any of the post war goods that ever came out of far East Asia.
    Having spent a couple weeks on a couple consulting jobs in India a few years ago I was able to observe first hand their "manufacturing" processes. In a word.....Crude. The more moving parts in a product, the worse it gets. Example: Parts that should be heat treated are, in a rather unique way. Held with bamboo tongs over a dung fire till smoked tinged and then dipped in used oil of dubious origin. I could go on for hours, much of which I wouldn't not have believed if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Then, in the bigger cities like New Delhi, there are the beggers the freaks and the stench......no way am I ever going back. BTW, "New" Delhi was designed for 1/2 million people - 14 million live there, 28 time more than the design. Yes, that 14 million people and then another 1/2 million cattle wandering loose, yes as in free roaming loose - everywhere - streets, alleys, thorough fares, highways. If 4 hooves can stand on it and there is not a cow on it now, just wait a few and there will be.
    Damndest sight I ever saw was a filthy turbaned guy driving a wood wheeled single axle cart being pulled by a camel while talking on a cell phone ..... amazing!

    Tim T G, that was a heck of a deal last May on Enco 12 x 18" grade A surface plates.... $37 & free shipping. Bought only 1 and had buyers remorse for not buying a dozen. LOL Could have sold them all and made a buck or two.
    The problem with ordering the 18 x 24" when on sale with Free Shipping is that the ship weight is about 252lbs. and is "truck" shipment only. The driver is not obligated to help you so a guy is between a rock and a hard spot if alone with no lift equipment, when the truck arrives.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    THEY are paying for return shipping? How did you DO that?

    They made ME pay to ship back bad goods...... THEY didn't pay a nickel, and I paid to ship them TO me also. So I was on the hook for ALL the shipping, despite THEIR product being crappy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim The Grim
    replied
    This is nothing new. I bought one of these back in '98 from ENCO with exactly the same type of rust as LAZLO's but in more places and the Made in India sticker. It was wrapped in that smelly wax paper that really didn't protect it.

    Who knows maybe they've all been sitting in a damp warehouse since Hector was a pup.

    Anyway , I kept mine, used it once for a non precision part and put it away. I even moved it from NJ to TX with me but it would take a while to find it if I wanted too.

    Generally I have had very good luck with ENCO and will continue to buy from them. I got some pink surface grinding wheels from them that are outstanding and my 12 x 18 surface plate with free shipping was also very pleasing.

    I also have no complaints about Shars or CDCO.
    Maybe I'm just lucky

    Leave a comment:


  • Pherdie
    replied
    I hated seeing that made in India sticker.
    Ditto! The minute I spy that on a newly received purchase, I figure I threw my money away.

    Unfortunately, it appears no vendors want to proudly display the "Made in India" logo next to their pictured products, thus allowing you to 'opt out'.

    Fred

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by Forrest Addy
    JTRouche' experience is all too common. Giveen my experience with imported Asian stuff, I'd shrug and scrape.
    Yup.. That was my first thought when I saw the angle plates. They look to be perfect candidates for a good ol fashioned scraping.

    But.... That's one craft I don't think I'll ever get to try out. I'm no good with ANYTHING freehand.

    Pencil and pen, chisel and mallet or knife and fork, much less a metal scraper. JR

    Leave a comment:


  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by gnm109
    Enco is good for some things. On the other hand, there are irregularities from time to time. Best to just call them and get a return authorization. They won't care at all.
    For the record, I wasn't complaining about Enco, just pointing out that they don't seem to care at all about returning items.

    Although, the first thing Enco does is try to file an insurance claim against UPS. They did that with that rusty angle table I posted -- the customer service lady tells me to hold while she files a UPS claim.

    I said "Wait, this was in a sealed package -- this isn't UPS's fault!" The Enco woman chuckled, and said, "Oh, it's OK."

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Enco is good for some things. On the other hand, there are irregularities from time to time. Best to just call them and get a return authorization. They won't care at all.

    They are doing such a large volume that a few returns are part of the cost of doing business. A few disgruntled customers won't hurt their bottom line one iota.

    I could tell you some Enco stories but you all probably know how they go. When you buy Asian items, you have to be prepared for some flaws. Otherwise, just buy top quality American items all of the time....ahh, where would that be?

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X