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  • #31
    Sometimes you have to buy stuff made in china...Thats the only place some stuff is made in...Its unfortunate, but its the way of life..I am a manufacture, and proud to say my products are made with USA labor..but, some of my machining tools are made elsewhere..like the inserts for Iscar...or that 2" diameter HSS drill for $65.00..what a bargain...I do my best in buying "made in USA", but its not practical all of the time for myself...

    brent

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    • #32
      How can we compete when I can buy this for $7.00 US last weekend? Made in Taiwan. $7.00!!!. how is it possible to retail this so cheap? The normal rule is that the cost of manufacturing is around 25% of the retail price. ??????

      I don't even really need it but for $7 I couldn't pass it up.



      [This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-16-2003).]
      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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      • #33
        If you didn't need it why did you buy it? That is part of what they count on. When it fails, you will be much less likely to complain, and more junk has been unloaded on us.
        My experience with most of this sort of thing is that most of the pieces will fail short order. The QC air fitting, blow gun and inflation chuck will leak, the pressure gage will crap out after a couple of uses. That will leave you with a couple of QC nipples and maybe some other things you probably won't use.
        You will say, "Oh well, I only spent $7.00 any how, so I'm not out much, and I still have the......"
        Cheap materials and poor quality are part of the reason they can sell so cheaply.
        Other reasons are the semi-skilled labor that may cost $10-$15/hr here costs $0.50/hr or less there, and that same $10-$15 here costs another 50%-100% more for fringes, while the $.50 is out the door. Add the other costs mentioned above imposed for whatever reason, pollution, insurance, property costs, taxes and so on and the gap gets wider.
        One thing you can bet is that the CEO of Campbell Hausfeld will eat tonight, and pretty well. The stockholders and ex employees may not do as well, as "increased competition and necessary reductions in profit margins have reduced income and necessitated reduction in the labor force".
        Jim H.

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        • #34
          Guys,

          Much as I sympathize, economics obey certain immutable laws that can't be repealed by government fiat. It's like water. It will always find its own level. A free consumer will always engage in a cost/benefit/utility analysis; and freedom is a good thing, right? Does anyone really want to compel consumers at the point of a gun? (Look to the former Soviet Union to see what eventually happens when those laws are enforced.)

          If an air tool cost $7 and breaks after 1000 uses, a $70 dollar tool will have to be used 10,000 times before it begins to be cost effective. (I say "begins" because there is also a time value to money that has to be taken into account.) Most homeowners who want air tools will not use them 10,000 times so the $7 tool is cost effective. We can extol the virtues of $70 US tools all day long, but in the end, the customer makes the choice. Business owners will still buy the $70 tool because they may use them 20,000 or 30,000 times in a year; but it’s only because it makes financial sense. This kind of stuff is inevitable. Governments since the Roman Empire have tried to avoid these laws and it always leads to the same disastrous results. Yes, there are short-term dislocations that occur due to free trade. It happened during the rise of the Greek City/States, it happened during the industrial revolution and it is happening now. Eventually, however, increased market efficiencies will provide benefits to both sides.

          Think of the following as an example: Assume Mexican farmers can grow tomatoes for $.20 a pound and US farmers can produce them for $1.00 a pound. Next, assume that Mexican machine shops can produce widgets to a certain tolerance for $1,000 whereas US shops can produce them for $500 due to the increased efficiencies of CNC and highly skilled labor. The US Machine shop can sell two widgets to US farmers and obtain 1,000 lbs. of US tomatoes. The Mexican machine shop can sell just one widget and get 5,000 lbs. of Mexican tomatoes.

          Without free trade, the Mexican farmer gets 1/2 as many widgets but has to give 5 times as many tomatoes whereas the US farmer gets 2 times as many widgets for 5 times fewer tomatoes. If we allow free trade, the Mexican farmer can sell those same 5,000 lbs. of tomatoes to a US machine shop for 2 widgets. The US machine shop owner gets 5 times as many tomatoes and the Mexican farmer gets 2 times as many widgets.

          Obviously, there’s a problem for the US farmer and Mexican machine shop: they either go out of business or discover how to compete by increasing efficiencies so that each may produce more for less. And guess what? That’s exactly what happens! This is why the standard of living has been steadily rising from the beginning of the world until today. Increased trade results in increased economic efficiencies that result in increased goods and services for ever-less effort. Yes, it causes disruption which changes our lives. We have to constantly learn new skills just to compete; but, do you really want to try Soviet style economics, instead?

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          • #35
            When I say I don't really need it that is because I already have all the air tools and fittings necessary. But, some are rather old and do leak. I'm afraid the quality of the parts in that accessory kit is first rate and they don't leak. I have been using some of the same parts such as the blow gun for some time now in the shop with my little compressor with the 2 gallon tank that I use to blow chips out of blind holes etc. It will still have air in it two days since last run with that blow gun and QC fitting on it.

            I don't understand how those parts can be manufactured and finished, packaged and transported, displayed and sold for that price. I can't get a single piece of metal the size of the blow gun chromed for $7.00.
            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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            • #36
              Don't support a system that pays its workers a dollar a day. It is false economy of the worst kind. By supporting this type of economy you breed desparation and hopelessness.
              Forget religious beliefs, poverty is THE cause of terrorism.

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              • #37
                Greg,

                Have a look inside your computer and see where the parts were made. If you really want to do as you say you will have to forego owning a computer or any other electronic device such as car, microwave etc.
                Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                • #38
                  Evan,
                  Good point, but as a consumer of the products you mention (computer, automobile, etc)do we have a choice?

                  When I have a choice I buy from a producer who shares my belief.

                  Coffee is a good example. I buy my coffee from a company who does not leave the farmer in desparate subsistance living conditions.

                  As a consumer its about making the right choice when you have the option to do so.

                  Greg

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                  • #39
                    We all want something for the cheapest price we can find. VCRs were never really made in the states, DVD players aren't made in the states. The technology was developed in the states. How many TVs are made in the U.S.??? If your $200 20" TV dies, you throw it away, instead of getting it fixed, because it cheaper.

                    This the way we do technology and with jobs. When it breaks or is used up, we throw it away.


                    Jerry

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                    • #40
                      On CNN today they announced that the SAS shoe company in Pittsfield Maine is giving each of their employees a Christmas bonus of $1000 for each year of service. Some employees will be getting a $20,000 check.

                      They can do this and still compete in the shoe market in America. Maybe it has sonmething to do with the integrity of the companie's CEO and not the pressures of a competetive market.

                      I read the other day in USA today that the average wage of a manufacturing employee in the US is $16, while the average wage in China is $0.61.

                      Bernard

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                      • #41
                        How many of us in the baby boomer generation remember the Honeywell Pentax cameras? A real American made camera, NOT! Or the Roberts Reel to Reel tape machine???

                        Most of those cheap and unreliable early small American brand cars were made off shore. Mine had a seizure and died 8 months after I bought it, it was a Chrysler brand car.

                        I have a set of Craftsman tools that my father bought, it was a 1/2 inch drive set, made in the U.S., it isn't flashy or have a vacuum molded case. Never had to take any of it back for replacement, unlike the new ones I have purchased.

                        I buy American and Canadian made stuff, but most things are made off shore. The U.S. Army's Black Beret's (stolen from the Rangers) are made in China.

                        A while ago some stuff came in to the country that said "Made in USA", there is a village whose name is Usa in the Orient. Great trick.

                        In the 50s, stuff made in Japan meant junk, today the junk comes from China and India.

                        What happen to the quality product that we bought lots of, called Volkswagon? With a simple set of tools and a book called "How to keep your Volkswagon alive and well for the complete idiot" you could actually fix your car. I used to dangle my feet between the bif block engine and the inner fender of my '66 Impala when working on it. Now I can't get my hand inside most places on current cars.

                        Please don't give me that clean environment crap and lessons in world economics, If we just used our heads, we wouldn't need to worry about those things.

                        Any one remember the Chrysler Turbine Car? Ran on corn squeezings or Channel Number 5, if it was liquid and would ignite, it would use it. Where is that technology today? It actually had better emmisions that any of the piston engines.

                        Thats my 2 cents for the moment.

                        Jerry

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                        • #42
                          Jerry,

                          The major car manufacturers are driving gas turbine/electric vehicles as we speak. It overcomes the big limitation of the pure turbine car, the spool up lag of a turbine. It sure did sound cool though, I saw one once. The old Chrysler turbine was pretty undrivable because of the several seconds lag as the rpms built up. With a turbine electric it all changes as you have a few batteries or ultra capacitors to provide instant power. Coming soon to a car dealer near you. Made in Asia.

                          [This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-16-2003).]
                          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                          • #43
                            Something thats lost in all this is our own government.

                            Overseas many times the government incourages industry and small enterprise,not so here.

                            Overseas workers make less,but it goes further because of a lack of taxes(we average .60 on the dollar once its all added up)whats the guy in China paying?Less than we!

                            Things will and do change,just look at Hong Kong,total slum 50 years ago now look,even with the Communists in charge its still easier to go in business there than it is here.John Stossil did it in 1:15 flat.

                            The workers will not work forever for what they are making now,wages will increase over time right along with taxes just like they did here.

                            Conditions will improve just like they did here.

                            Its funny that in China,under a communist government you can get all the finacial aid you want to set up shop,not here.

                            Used to you could setup shop,hang your sign out and you lived or died by your service or product,it was that simple,but no longer,it was shown recently that to do it right in this country in the average city with all forms and permits it costs on average $24,000 just for permits and licesense fees.

                            I haven't added up all the crap at work yet this year,but last year inventory,property,business and personal property tax amounted to $28,000 so waht that means is the first two months of every year are spent working for free just to pay the taxes to stay in business thats not including uncle sam or the state of Mississippi.And the best part,with the exception of sales tax Wal-Mart is totally exempt!

                            This used to be a capitalist open market society now we are socialist to the core,according to recent figures from the GAO 40% of the land mass of the United States is owned by either the state or federal government also they consume 43%of the GDP every year,where did we go wrong?



                            [This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 12-16-2003).]
                            I just need one more tool,just one!

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