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How's that way frosting workin' out for yah?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by J Tiers

    Maybe it is really YOU who are the laughingstock?
    Well if you think about it.... Lets scrape a way flat, the pockets left are no deeper then 0.0002"

    Now lets scrape a series of pockets 0.001 deep all over our flat way...

    Now lets expose that way to dirt, grime and swarf just like in a normal shop... What is going to happen to the ways when these 0.001" slots fill up with above mentioned, grime, dirt and swarf... When the mating parts rubs over the top it is going to pull it between the ways and wear it out..
    Precision takes time.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by beckley23
      Have you spotted the column face with a straight edge, or surface plate?
      Harry
      Um.... that's what the picture is

      Yes, it really DID spot up like that......and that's relatively thick blue, as you can see. No "blue haze" there.

      And, no, it doesn't make sense to me either. Logically, it should have worn-in more, but I am assuming, for better or worse, that at least since the knee was last machined, the wear has not been very much.

      I don't know if that was original, or recent machining.

      Edit:

      BTW, R.C., I see what you mean... sorry I was kinda "on" you, my apologies to you......that isn't by any means entirely a silly consideration..... you have a point, although it may apply equally well (almost) to scraping.... but most QUALITY frosting is not very deep... I don't regard a thou or maybe more of "pocketing' as a good plan at all, on ANY ways... If scraped, the oil retention should be good enough.

      I very much doubt if the 'frosting" on the B&S machines was anything like that deep. It was a checkerboard pattern, more a scraped finish pattern than an applied pattern of pockets.. I happen to think that the "pocket" frosting looks stupid. On the other hand, the checkerboard frosting looks like a million dollars to me.

      Done right, "frosting" looks like "frost".... not a bunch of gouges. I have heard of surface plates with the company logo "frosted" into the middle, very visible, but undetectable if you passed your hand over it. That's more the quality of the B&S, etc 'frosting".
      Last edited by J Tiers; 12-19-2010, 11:50 PM.
      1601

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan

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      • #18
        Originally posted by J Tiers
        OH YES IT CAN.....
        Oh...my goodness

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        • #19
          Originally posted by .RC.
          On any decent machine exposed ways should never ever ever be frosted....

          Frosting on exposed ways is a sign of amateur hour..
          The Cincinnati #5 at work and My Kempsmith both have factory frosting all the way up the colum past the spindle.

          I guess they aren't decent machines

          Steve

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          • #20
            Originally posted by J Tiers
            BTW, R.C., I see what you mean... sorry I was kinda "on" you, my apologies to you......
            Apologies are not needed, I was probably a bit harsh in my original post and did not elaborate enough....

            But to me...

            Frosting is purely decorative, very shallow

            Flaking is the deep oil retaining scratches...

            I really meant flaking on exposed slides rather then frosting..
            Precision takes time.

            Comment


            • #21
              Newbie question.

              "I got out the smaller granite flat, blued it up, and spotted the ways."

              Do I take this to mean that you blued the plate and that the blued areas on the column are the areas that the knee is/was bearing on?
              Is it possible for someone to post a pic of the way it SHOULD look?
              Last edited by BigMike782; 12-20-2010, 01:10 PM.

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              • #22
                Do a youtube search for "scraping", "hand scraping", "scrapefest", etc. Plenty of great videos.

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                • #23
                  JT- Sorry I didn't see the spotting at the top of the column.

                  This is the spotting of the cross slide of a 16" Monarch Series 60 lathe. It's pretty close to be being finished. The cross slide is 8-1/2" wide and approx 20" long(IIRC).

                  Harry

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                  • #24
                    Big Mike:

                    Yes..... granite flat got blue spread on it, and then was held up against the ways and moved slightly to transfer the blue wherever it touched. Which wasn't much, as you can see... a streak up the outside "edge", and a spot at top, basically.

                    It SHOULD look pretty much like the picture that beckley23 posted.

                    I don't blame him for asking if I had spotted it... you need to look close to see that there is ANY blue on it.

                    Now I an wondering if the Benchmaster Company could possibly have been that bad, or if this is the fine work of Bubba and his friends, moonlighting from their day job of roofing and ditching.

                    I'll have to scrape it until I get a good spotting, verify and correct the guiding way and the gib way, then spot the knee against it, checking for a 90 deg angle (or a tad short of that) to the saddle ways on top of the knee. And so forth until the table is correctly aligned.
                    Last edited by J Tiers; 12-20-2010, 11:14 PM.
                    1601

                    Keep eye on ball.
                    Hashim Khan

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thanks for the clarification.I was thinking that the way were blued and the plate took off everything except the low spots.......obviously I was wrong .

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                      • #26
                        Thanks for the clarification.I was thinking that the ways were blued and the plate took off everything except the low spots.......obviously I was wrong .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          A possible explanation for the column spotting, is that the casting over time "stress relieved" itself. I say this with hesitation, but when I was working on the saddle of the "Wreck", the apron interface of the saddle was warped, and had to be straightened with a milling cut. The unusual aspect, was that the rear saddle wings were/are straight and flat. Given the age of the machine, mfg in 1964, anything could have happen in the intervening years, and the machine did a back flip in the second to last move, which was the reason it was for sale. I wouldn't think that Monarch let it out of the factory like that, I think that would have showed up real quick.
                          Then again, somebody could have been using a bad spotting tool, and the pattern is what you see.
                          Harry

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                          • #28
                            The vertical knee ways would never wear like horizontal ways ..basically when the knee is unclamped and its wound up and down ..The weight of the table tilts it forward ..and the knee only touches at the bottom.

                            you can see this ....just unclamp the knee ..and stick feeler blades in it ..gap will be wider at the top than the bottom .

                            there wouldn't be that much wear there anyway ..because the machine is only under load in xfeed and yfeed mode.

                            what you would get, is wear from chips that had fallen into the gap if no wipers are fitted.

                            the knee will also deflect to one side ..as its being wound up and down ..one side for up ..other side for down..this is because youre winding and levering on the handle, will through it that way or the other, whilst its loose and unclamped.

                            all the best.markj
                            Last edited by aboard_epsilon; 12-21-2010, 07:00 PM.

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                            • #29
                              J Tiers,

                              Curious how thick the piece of granite is; are you sure it didn't deflect at all?

                              Granite is about 3/4 as stiff as aluminum.

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                              • #30
                                A-E....

                                That's mostly true, but.... The screw is very approximately at the balance point, so it removes some of the unbalanced hanging weight when moving the knee.

                                And, I very much doubt that anything like that is affecting it, this machine is all parts that a 200lb desk worker can carry around easily (except the column, which is a heavy sucker). The column spots as non-flat, and the knee confirms it.

                                As for casting "relaxation" etc, maybe... I just don't know, didn't think it would be an issue with a lighter weight machine, actually, didn't think cast iron really DID that. If it was not from external stress, but was a relaxation of internal stresses, that I can believe much more easily.

                                Granite deflection? The granite flat is about 50 or 60 mm thick, enough that I am just not considering that possibility.... especially since very little force is involved in "spotting" a vertical surface..... one does NOT "force" anything, but rather brings the surfaces together with enough pressure to transfer blue (if doing it horizontal, pressure relates to the weight of the upper piece.)
                                Last edited by J Tiers; 12-21-2010, 10:56 PM.
                                1601

                                Keep eye on ball.
                                Hashim Khan

                                Comment

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