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  • Sunday Morning Help Needed: Pic

    The results of my one and only tool gloat are now becoming evident. Now I need help.

    The facing mills have some carbide inserts which I need help identifying.

    The tools were made by: SECTA TOOLS Ferramentas Especias (special tools) here in Brazil. The tool shanks measure in mm (25mm to be exact) BUT, the inserts measure in inches. The smaller one seems to be 7/32" and the larger one 3/8". To me the selection of inserts, their names and prices is quite confusing.

    The second one from the right seems kind of useful since it has one cutter towards the outside and another one towards the inside. Can't wait to see what kind of finish I can get with it.



    Anybody with some help? Source of cheap inserts? It looks like I will need screws too. I will be in the States in Jan. so I can pick up some there.

    Also, I will need to turn down the shanks of these tools to fit in a 3/4" R8 collet for the Bridgeport. They don't seems to be hardened according to the "file" test.

    What in the world could the knurled collars be for? A lot of work went into making them, but what do they do? I guess I'll just discard the rings and use them another day.
    Last edited by davidwdyer; 12-19-2010, 08:59 AM.
    Vitَria, Brazil

  • #2
    Flee bay for inserts, rings are for setting "Out distance" in tool holder.

    Regards Ian.
    You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Circlip
      Flee bay for inserts, rings are for setting "Out distance" in tool holder.

      Regards Ian.
      Yes, flee bay is a possibility, but what kind are they? There must be twenty (or more) different acronyms and/or letter identifiers for these things.
      Vitَria, Brazil

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      • #4
        With those Weldon shanks you could use a 25mm. dia solid holder, would save turning those shanks down.
        Ray

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ray Sidell
          With those Weldon shanks you could use a 25mm. dia solid holder, would save turning those shanks down.
          Ray
          That's an idea. Is that something I can easily buy perhaps at ENCO, or would I have to make it?
          Vitَria, Brazil

          Comment


          • #6
            C'mon you guys. I really need help here and know nothing about inserts.

            Can't someone at least give me a place to start? How can I go about finding something that fits? Is it just a question of what will actually fit in the space, or do the angles on the sides, size of the screw, etc. fit into the picture?
            Vitَria, Brazil

            Comment


            • #7
              Hard to tell without seeing it in person, but those look like SNMG inserts (Square Negative Rake). 43x, or 33x size, depending on the inscribed circle.
              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

              Comment


              • #8
                Solid Holder

                This should take you direct to an ebay site - -

                http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/R8-Bridgeport-...item43a3ad1e57

                Comment


                • #9
                  Each shank will have a makers name plus a serial no./part number. Dial these into Google and it will take you to the manufacturers website. Once you have found the holder on said website it will tell you what insert and screws to use.
                  Tony

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                  • #10
                    I notice those flats on the shanks are ground, or cut, at an angle.
                    What would be the purpose of that? ...to tend to draw them into the holder, you suppose?
                    One or two of the flats look like they were applied as an after-mod.
                    Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lazlo
                      Hard to tell without seeing it in person, but those look like SNMG inserts (Square Negative Rake). 43x, or 33x size, depending on the inscribed circle.
                      Please excuse my ignorance, but what does 43x and 33x mean?
                      Vitَria, Brazil

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tony Pratt
                        Each shank will have a makers name plus a serial no./part number. Dial these into Google and it will take you to the manufacturers website. Once you have found the holder on said website it will tell you what insert and screws to use.
                        Tony
                        Not necessarily true. I have a single flute face mill that I ordered from someplace that was made by API. I found their website (API s) but still haven't figured out what insert goes with it (it came with a screw, a spare screw and a clamp, but no insert).

                        I guess I will have to call API and ask them to explain it to me.

                        Tim

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I see Enco has something called CCMT inserts which look something like mine and the 3/8" one looks like it might fit. The 7/32" which I need is not in evidence.

                          What does CCMT mean?

                          Then they have two models: a CCMT 32.51 and a CCMT 32.52 without any explanation of what the difference is.

                          Any more help out there?
                          Vitَria, Brazil

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tmc_31
                            Not necessarily true. I have a single flute face mill that I ordered from someplace that was made by API. I found their website (API s) but still haven't figured out what insert goes with it (it came with a screw, a spare screw and a clamp, but no insert).

                            I guess I will have to call API and ask them to explain it to me.

                            Tim
                            Tim, not going to argue but all the sites I have looked at do link the toolholders to their respective inserts,screws, clamps etc.
                            Tony

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A good place to start is to figure out what dimensions are used to make up the designations. From there you can use charts to find the right insert.

                              I like the resources at http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm to help find inserts. In particular, the chart at http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm breaks down the codes.

                              First you need to know the insert size in general. As I understand it, the standard is to use an IC ('incribed circle' or the largest circle that will fit within the outline of the insert) as the first dimension. An IC works on odd shapes like squares, triangles, rectangles and parallelogram. The IC is measured in 1/8 inches, so the first 4 in the 43x indicates that it should be 1/2 (4/8) inch IC.

                              The height is measured in 16ths, so the 3 in the 43x would be 3/16 high when laying flat.

                              The X is a placeholder for some tip radius.

                              The third toolholder from the left looks to use a square insert. From the chart that will be an insert starting with an S. The SNMG431 suggested by Lazlo would be
                              S Square
                              N No rake
                              M Molded = Loose tolerances between inserts
                              G Cylindrical hole without countersink, chip-breakers on both sides
                              4 1/2 inch across
                              3 3/16 inch high
                              1 1/16 inch radius on the cutting tip.

                              You can use the same to find the appropriate insert for the other tools. You may have to guess at the IC for the ones that are not a complete pocket.


                              Dan
                              At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

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