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Semi OT: How old should children be before helping in the shop.

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  • fixerdave
    replied
    I while back, I was helping build some stuff while watching a friend's kid... we're talking a can't walk, still in diapers, kid. Within 2 minutes of watching, he was helping me thread nuts on bolts, just had to show him the right way to turn, once. Within 5, he was doing it himself, wouldn't let me do any. Within 10 minutes, he had a ratchet figured out, though, obviously, I had to torque things down. Kids are smart; give 'em a chance and they might surprise you.

    My kid is now 3/4 year old and I expect I'll be having plenty of battles with Mom about him being in the shop. Hopefully, not court battles though. My condolences. My bottom-line limit is that anyone going into the shop has to have enough experience in life to understand pain, the concept of 'careful, and when 'no' really, really means 'NO!' Until then, there's no way I'd let my kid walk around my shop.

    I was going to finish with the obligatory stories about how I grew up... but there's no point. If Social Services were then like they are now, I'd have grown up in a foster home, no question about it. But, oh man, did I have fun

    David...

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  • Black_Moons
    replied
    Originally posted by David Powell
    Obviously has the right idea----- let the children do things and participate as and when THEY want to , not when you, the adult think they SHOULD. My neighbour tried too hard to encourage his son to become involved with his interest( Antique car restoration) the result being that the boy has NO interest whatsoever in anything mechanical. I became well aware that my children only had interest at times and tried to organise things so that we could play in the workshop when they wanted, but could go and play other things when interest in the shop waned. The results were excellent. regards David Powell.
    VERY good point, forcing children to do things just makes them rebel because they can and its something to rebel against. Its not a fun activity, its a job/task, once you force them to do it. Also children have short attention spans and don't perticularly enjoy doing something once there attention lapses.

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  • Forrest Addy
    replied
    So isolate your children from all productive activity, send them to school where no practcal training is offered, fail to send them on excursions to museums and factories, farm and studios, deny them activer participation in community events and decision making, and what do we get? A generation of know nothing, do nothing, game players.

    Kids learn their most vivid lessons emulating adults. Want them to take responsibility, place them in responisble situations under a mentor whether its hunting and gathering or building a nation a cog at a time. It's been that way for 50,000 years. Why should it be different now?

    Want to make good citizens? Build up Scouting and participate; adult and child. Gangs and drud will wither and family solidarity will return.
    Last edited by Forrest Addy; 03-14-2011, 07:26 PM.

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  • sasquatch
    replied
    kids in the shop

    This topic kinda reinforces ones faith in the upcomming generation, so good to read here that kids are recieving the chance to learn "REAL" things!!

    These destructive mind robbing video games are not going to be good for the next generation. Seems like so many are going to end up just "Wandering Sheep", with little ability in anything except using their thumbs.

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  • Davo J
    replied
    It all depends on the child.
    My son has been in the shed since he could walk, he would just have a hammer and some nails until he got bored. Latter on in years he would come down for a few hours watching and asking about things. I first put a mig welder in his hand at the age of nine, but he didn't do it on his own until he was about 14. He always had a mechanical mind with building amazing things with Mecano, fixing push bikes and remote control cars, then at around 13 fixing motor bikes and cars. All through the years of learning my wife has also encouraged him and is now proud of what he can do.

    He is 18 now and is a first year apprentice in auto electrics. He won the job from a weeks trial last year when they where not hiring until after chistmas. The first week he rebuilt a starter motor using the the lathe to turn down the commutator and fitted a full stereo/GPS etc to the bosses new car.
    In the second week, a truck came in the work shop that needed a tie rail rewelded as it had been broken, so they could run new wires down it. The shop had the welders but no one knew how to weld because the couple of guys that knew how to do it had left and even the bosses and the fully qualified guys had no clue. So my son put his hand up and did the overtime welding so they could get the truck out.
    So teaching him from when he was young paid off for him.

    He has never been a big fan of video games, I look at his mates these days and they haven't got a clue and are always asking him to do things for them as they don't know how.

    His 2 year older sister is a girly girl and was never very interested in the shed stuff. I would invite her in when she was playing in the yard, but she would never stay long.

    All though the grand kids love the hammer and nails in the shed, the video games have got their attention. Some kids have got the inkling some haven't.

    Good luck with your court case, if it's anything like over here the child's safety comes first and like said above judges are not normal people.

    Dave

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  • David Powell
    replied
    The previous poster-----

    Obviously has the right idea----- let the children do things and participate as and when THEY want to , not when you, the adult think they SHOULD. My neighbour tried too hard to encourage his son to become involved with his interest( Antique car restoration) the result being that the boy has NO interest whatsoever in anything mechanical. I became well aware that my children only had interest at times and tried to organise things so that we could play in the workshop when they wanted, but could go and play other things when interest in the shop waned. The results were excellent. regards David Powell.

    Leave a comment:


  • dharnell
    replied
    My youngest (8 years old) was watching me grind some dies today. After watching a while he asked if he could help grind some dies. We went over the basics of what each handle/wheel did, got his glasses, and started.

    After a few passes he got into a nice rhythm, wait till the wheel reaches the end of its stroke, feed the wheel 0.010" and repeat. 370 passes later he was done. He liked watching the sparks. He ground 2 dies, then his interest started to fade. Said he "had enough", went to play with his brothers.

    Dave

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  • PixMan
    replied
    Originally posted by vpt
    My oldest likes her 4 wheeler.

    Please, don't let her ride that without a good helmet. How might you feel if it up-ended and landed on her noggin? If nothing else, putting a helmet on every time she rides will help her get into a good habit.
    Last edited by PixMan; 03-07-2011, 04:58 PM.

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  • HWooldridge
    replied
    I've been married for 30 years; our four "kids" are now grown men and gone from home. I'm also sorry this is part of a child custody issue and I can't speak to that aspect - but I had a shop since before our sons were born so they all grew up around tools. I constantly told them everything was either "hot, heavy or hard" so horseplay was not tolerated...no exceptions. I let them use anything whenever they matured to the point where I felt they were capable to handle the tool and they had showed an interest in it. I also never turned them loose without supervision and believe it is a judgment call with every person - as previously stated, there are some who should not be in a shop before their teen years (perhaps even as adults) - other people are more reliable at a younger age. For example, my father and grandfather allowed me to use all sorts of hand tools beginning when I was quite young (from about 6 years of age and up) and I did cut myself or hammer a fingertip from time to time but the occasional injury never stopped my interest. The first power tools I was allowed to use were belt sanders - chain saws were not allowed until I was older and stronger. I always emphasized safety with power tools or when welding and my wife never questioned my judgment because she trusted I would not put them in harm's way. Although they became familiar with my shop over the years and completed some hobby projects, only one of the four shows any interest in metalwork and he just likes to weld - none have any interest in machining or tool work...but I still have hope for a grandchild to come along and show an interest.
    Last edited by HWooldridge; 03-07-2011, 03:45 PM.

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  • spope14
    replied
    I agree with the post about your soon to be ex-wife being jealous about the young one having a great time and raving about it. This said, My oldest daughter I would not put around machinery until she was about 14, my youngest started helping at 8. I would not have my grand daughter in my shop right at this point in life, she is 8. Depends upon the kid, the focus they have, the ability to follow direction, and their attention to detail. Heck, there are 30 and 40 year olds I have worked with that I would not put in my shop to help me.

    The judge may use state employment law to judge basis on this. Even schools have a 16 year old requirement for most applications, or specialty requirements for Junior High and even grade school kids using some power tools. May want to check this out, what are the courses at the schools, say middle or Junior High. Then again, our school district may be one of the few left with Jr. High shop?

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  • derekm
    replied
    Originally posted by SteveF
    While I can say that I've never been injured on my motorcycle, I did have my foot stomped by a Percheron so hard it was broken and I said bad words for 5 full minutes, but I'll take that over the 3 days my buddy spent in the hospital after he got cleaned off his bike by a deer at 50 mph.

    If you read that article and follow the links back to the source articles, the data gets kinda' flimsy. Honestly, how do they have any idea how many hours a year a person spends riding either or even how many people ride horses? In the article you quote the injury sample size is 20!

    Fatality data is more solid. Runs about 4500 - 5000 per year for motorcycles and 200 for equine activites in the USA.

    Steve
    Read carefully. the sample size of 20 is in depth cause analysis of accidents.
    which points to 75% being the horse rather than the rider or traffic.

    The motorcycling versus horse riding is using UK national statistics on reported serious injuries.

    see citations
    2 Firth JR. Equestrian injuries. In: Schneider RC, Kennedy JC,
    Plant ML, Fowler PJ, Hoff FT, Matthews LS, eds. Sports
    Injuries, Mechanisms Prevention and Treatment. Baltimore: Williams
    and Wilkins, 1985: 431-8.
    Last edited by derekm; 03-07-2011, 11:45 AM.

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  • photomankc
    replied
    Like others have said. Age has little to do with it. My daughter was helping me reload ammo when she was 5 because she was able to listen, follow directions, and keep her hands off what she was told not to touch. She's built a project on the manual mill at 6 and helps run the new CNC'd mill now at 7. I know plenty of teens I would not trust to turn on the lights in my basement so age does not determine ability or responsablity.

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  • SteveF
    replied
    Originally posted by derekm
    Risk perception is off base:
    Would you let a child under the age of 8 do something proven to be 20 times more dangerous for serious injury than motorcycling?( measured as numbers serious injury per thousand hours)

    [snip]

    "On average, motorcyclists suffer an injury once every 7000 hours of riding. By contrast, an equestrian (horseback rider) may have a serious accident once every 350 hours."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1478823/

    and before you say the research is biased check who is backing the research
    While I can say that I've never been injured on my motorcycle, I did have my foot stomped by a Percheron so hard it was broken and I said bad words for 5 full minutes, but I'll take that over the 3 days my buddy spent in the hospital after he got cleaned off his bike by a deer at 50 mph.

    If you read that article and follow the links back to the source articles, the data gets kinda' flimsy. Honestly, how do they have any idea how many hours a year a person spends riding either or even how many people ride horses? In the article you quote the injury sample size is 20!

    Fatality data is more solid. Runs about 4500 - 5000 per year for motorcycles and 200 for equine activites in the USA.

    Steve
    Last edited by SteveF; 03-07-2011, 10:51 AM.

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  • Rustybolt
    replied
    Sorry your ex wife is being such a PIA.
    Kids like to help their dads.
    Whenever my dughter decided what I was doing was more interesting than what she was doing at the moment, I let her help. Not just a hammer a piece of wood and few nails help, but , look at the picture in the instructiions and tell me what we need to do next grab a wrench help.
    It started when she was 3 or 4.
    It's a very important step in a childs deveopment to know they are a useful part of the family.

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  • lane
    replied
    Its not what the kid can do . Its what the wife and judge thinks the kid should be doing. And it sure is not being in a shop at that age may be 16 are so . As far as a judge is concerned. Judges don`t think like real people.

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