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Buyer beware. (Enco)

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  • Buyer beware. (Enco)

    Just a heads-up for anyone that might be considering purchasing a Morse taper reamer from Enco. In a word.... don't.

    I thought I would take a chance and picked up 2 of their import MT reamers on "clearance". I tried to clean up the tail-stock quill on my lathe, and the reamer wouldn't even scratch the surface. Also tried using a lot of pressure pushing it - nothing happened.

    Since then I had ordered a reamer from McMaster (made in USA) and received it today. It cut through the quill socket like it was butter. Very little effort required, and a smooth clean cut. Yes, it cost more - but it worked.

    The only good thing I suppose is that I now have a couple of taper cleaners for wiping out any crud from my spindles. I know they will rub the taper clean without fear of doing any cutting.

    Just another one of those instances where trying to save a buck costs you more in the end. Don't make the same mistake I did.
    (This has been a public service announcement.)
    Last edited by Highpower; 03-15-2011, 10:05 AM.

  • #2
    Send 'em back. They'll happily give you a refund or credit towards the real thing if they have it. They responded in a customer-driven manner the one time I wasn't happy with an item I received from them.

    Told me not to worry about sending the old one back and the replacement they sent had a slip of paper in the box indicating a human being had checked the item as being good...and it was.
    Milton

    "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

    "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

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    • #3
      I agree with the previous post about sending it back, Enco is the el cheapo unit of MSC. I don't buy alot from MSC/Enco anymore because of they are focusing on price point buyers that do not care about quality. The only place I shop is Mcmaster unless they do not carry it.
      Last edited by squirrel; 03-11-2011, 04:04 PM.

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      • #4
        Were the reamers sharp? Did they come from China or (worse) india? I'd send them both back for a refund.

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        • #5
          I thought it would be a given !
          If you buy it and it don't work then send it back for a full refund including carriage.
          THE intermediate step is to email them and declare your dissatisfaction and your intention to return the goods for full refund. That should prompt a FOC replacement which works. If it does then "great"
          If it doesn't than you carry out your initial threat!

          One of the great things about the interweb is the facility to post reviews and feedback to a worldwide audience.

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          • #6
            Enco is like HF. Cheap stuff with few brand names. I think we have all been that route at one time or another. A long time ago I bought a set of slotted angle plates for my mill. When they arrived in the wax coated burlap lined box with all the funny numbers printed on the side I became leary of what might be inside. When I set them on the table of my mill they rocked from corner to corner. The holes were supposed to be for 1/2" bolts but could easily accomodate 5/8" bolts. The inside surfaces were just a mound of ratty looking cast iron with thousands of pin holes. The went back in a hurry.

            JL.................

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            • #7
              Enco reamers on top - McMaster reamer on the bottom.
              Enco: Made in Bosnia.
              McMaster: Made in Massachusetts, USA


              The Enco reamers are sharp, but - the angles of the flutes are all wrong. They are ground at 90° with zero rake what-so-ever.

              I cannot return them to Enco. Why? Because I bought them in Dec 09 and haven't tried using them until now... *** My fault ***
              I bought these around the same time I purchased my semi-universal indexing head. That turned out to be a disaster as well as I recently discovered a problem with that as well. Again -- my fault for not closely inspecting the items back when I received them.

              I have purchased a lot of usable tooling from Enco without problems in the past. It's not ALL bad. But I have now learned to dissect, inspect, test, and scrutinize ANYTHING I get in the future, the instant it arrives instead of putting it on the shelf for later use.

              I only wanted to warn folks not to waste their time and money on these particular reamers that's all. I'll still buy from them, but anything not up to snuff will go back instantly from now on.

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              • #8
                So, what I take away from your experience is don't buy those reamers from Enco in 2009. It's a little late for that. Who knows who their supplier is for the ones they stock today. I would be astonished if no one else had complained about an improper grinding job between then and now and the same defective tools were being supplied to buyers. I sympathise with your experience but a warning is no help now.
                .
                "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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                • #9
                  If you've been a good customer (sounds like you have) and have the original packaging (or not) I'll bet you'll get some satisfaction from them if you ask. They look like they're still brand new.

                  Now if it was that Asian guy with the American 1st name that sells a lot of stuff to us HSM'rs....pffft, forget it. He lost a very good customer (me) in a somewhat similar situation.

                  Remember: "Customers Make Jobs, Not the Opposite."
                  Milton

                  "Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."

                  "The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion." G. K. Chesterton

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TGTool
                    So, what I take away from your experience is don't buy those reamers from Enco in 2009. It's a little late for that. Who knows who their supplier is for the ones they stock today. I would be astonished if no one else had complained about an improper grinding job between then and now and the same defective tools were being supplied to buyers. I sympathise with your experience but a warning is no help now.
                    Point taken.
                    But considering that they were advertising one of their indexers (up until last month) as having a B&S #7 taper, when they haven't produced those without a MT since 2005. I would have thought that somebody would have noticed that before I did, and complained about it.

                    You are probably correct about the reamers though. Most likely the reason they put the "defects" on clearance sale to sell to unsuspecting suckers... errrr, customers.

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                    • #11
                      Yeah, we're probably just not suspicious enough when those sale flyers come around. I remember a friend telling me that when he was a boy they would spend some time each summer with one particular maiden aunt. She'd bake a sheet cake and that would be dessert for days. Towards the end of the week there might be some small flecks of mold here and there. And then on the following day dessert would be the same cake with lemon sauce. It sounds like we're in the grownup version of the same scheme. I never thought to ask where his aunt worked. Now I wonder ..
                      .
                      "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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                      • #12
                        On any toolbit, you should never see a reflection from the sharp edge.
                        If you do, the cutter is dull. A sharp edge cannot reflect light
                        In looking at your photo, I can see some dull spots (reflections).
                        on the McMaster reamer on the second flute from the bottom. about 3/4" and 1/2" from the right hand ends, you see reflections....those are dull spots
                        Look. Now look at the top reamer, the whole thing reflects..


                        This is an oldtimer trick when looking at tools.
                        Never accept reflected light
                        Even a .001 radius will give you reflection

                        Rich
                        Green Bay, WI

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                        • #13
                          I've found a wide spectrum of product quality from every importer I've dealt with, Enco included.

                          The basic rule: immediately before you open the carton, prepare yourself for the potential hassle of obtaining an RMA and sending the contents back.
                          ================================================== =

                          But here's an Enco product that (as of Dec, 2010) is especially nice, a 5C collet fixture:

                          http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-7050


                          It's made in Taiwan, works well, has good fit and finish - and for crying out loud, even the plastic case is nice (thick plastic, robust box, strong compression latch, etc).

                          Edit: I just noticed that the Enco catalog doesn't even mention that the product comes in a case - how silly is that?
                          Last edited by tlfamm; 03-11-2011, 09:01 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Highpower
                            I cannot return them to Enco. Why? Because I bought them in Dec 09 and haven't tried using them until now... *** My fault ***
                            Ask them. You never know. My wife got a garden fountain from Plow and Hearth about 6 years ago. The pump failed after a few months, and about 4 years ago we finally got around to asking them about a return. They said sure, and sent us a prepaid UPS label to return for store credit. We discovered the box, forgotten, already packed and ready to return, in the garage 2 weeks ago. UPS picked it up, and we received a gift certificate today for the full cost of the fountain. Sometimes bureaucracies don't care how long it has been.

                            -Pete
                            I just like to make stuff.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pete F
                              Sometimes bureaucracies don't care how long it has been.

                              -Pete
                              My! You are quite the optimist aren't you?

                              Personally, I think customer service will get a big laugh out of it, but I sent an email anyway.

                              As I stated earlier, they will make good tools for cleaning out any stray "crud" from my machine spindles - so I'm not worried about keeping them. Got them cheap enough at the clearance price, so I got what I paid for I suppose. If I had paid full price for them I might feel differently. lol.

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