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Shotgun part repair....was it a bad idea?

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  • #16
    The part broke for a reason in the first place - its obviously loaded enough to cause concern, the fix is most likely not as strong as the original.

    the fact that the part has something to due with a firearm is huge, the fact that that part has something to due with the barrel alignment of a firearm is even huge'er,,, I don't care what the law is - I would not touch that repair for nothing unless I built it from tool steel or something superior to the original - but brazing? no way. it's not about the law, its about getting people hurt.

    just my opinion.

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    • #17
      With the description furnished, it is possible that the part repaired is one of two or three parts that may or may not be directly affected by firing forces. That makes it extremely difficult to evaluate the potential success or failure of the braze repair.

      My guess is that it is the fore end iron, in which case, a braze repair will work just fine and present no danger of harm to the user in the very unlikely chance that it would fail.
      Jim H.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by vpt
        I make critical vehicle parts quite often. It is not an easy feeling, every little part has to be thought over, inspected, and tested. The welding of the parts is the most nervous operation of the whole deal.
        you got bigger balls then I do. That or better liability insurance.
        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by A.K. Boomer
          The part broke for a reason in the first place - its obviously loaded enough to cause concern, the fix is most likely not as strong as the original.\
          \
          What's done is done, but going forward, I'd probably turn that kind of work down.

          It didn't break - it was broken. Sometimes things do just spontaneously separate however mostly due to misapplication of excess force.

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          • #20
            Speaking from experiance regarding the as long as a drawing is provided your covered aspect...

            At my work, we are asked to provide custom bolts from exotic material for things like nuclear turbines, oil rigs, refineries etc

            We will make or have made anything, provided there is a known spec and/or there is a detailed drawing calling out material.

            From there as long as we trust the source of material, we know our product will meet the called out specs and drawings...We dont have a liability issue...

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            • #21
              The English law

              Quote:
              "Isn't it interesting that a bureaucracy can make and change law that the Senate and Congress are the only ones that are supposed to be able to do. The bureaucracy's and the Supreme Court can and do change laws that the constitution does not give them the right to do."

              This how then legal is intended to work. This is the root idea of the English law system that our legal system is based on. When a Judge makes a ruling he is first guided by any specific legislation governing the matter. If there is none then he must look at "case law" or what other courts have done in similar situations. If there is no case law to guide him the he must decide the matter using his own judgment to determine, first, what is fair to parties involved and then beneficial to society as a whole.

              This system allows the legislature to pass laws with very vague wording and then force the courts define the details on a case by case basis. The Americans with Disabilities Act is a prime example of this political dodge. The politicians can all take credit for voting for the ADA and then blame the courts for parts that their supporters don't like.

              On the whole the system works very well, all day, every day, in the courts, with very little trouble. We tend to notice, (Or have thrown in our faces by the media), the systems few failures and not see or think about the thousands of settlements that are crafted each day to keep the country running.

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              • #22
                I wouldn't do it without a FFL. I've had many requests to nickel plate parts and turned them down because I don't have a FFL. The ATF is very specific about who can repair firearms. And simply having a part in your possession can constitute a firearm. (To Wit: Parts of a machine gun.)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by CCWKen
                  I've had many requests to nickel plate parts and turned them down because I don't have a FFL. The ATF is very specific about who can repair firearms. And simply having a part in your possession can constitute a firearm.
                  Like Ken says, I think you need to have an FFL to gunsmith to the public for a fee.
                  "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Carld
                    Yes, Joe, that was part of his reply. I forgot to add that. Thanks.

                    I had an FFL in the middle 1960's and the only reason was so I could legally do machine work to our clubs fast draw guns. When the 1968 gun laws were passed I finally gave up my FFL in 1970 because they were starting to harass people like me without a real business location. They didn't want shops at peoples homes. They told me I could work on guns for free without an FFL so I did. That probably has changed.

                    Isn't it interesting that a bureaucracy can make and change law that the Senate and Congress are the only ones that are supposed to be able to do. The bureaucracy's and the Supreme Court can and do change laws that the constitution does not give them the right to do. But I guess this is a discussion for a different thread or forum
                    A friend of mine is a gun smith, has been for over 30 years...... his father was a gun smith for over 50. They always worked out of the house and there was never a problem. Now my friend is still a licenced gun smith still working out of his house, he doesn't sell anything just does some small repairs for people at the club, most of which aren't even worth his time. Juat does it for the love of doing it.
                    Each year the ATF calls him and tells him they are comming over to check his books etc. etc. At least they are polite enought to do that. The smart ass broad that did the inspection refered to him as a kitchen table gun dealer because of the way he was set up, not having a real business location. But they couldn't site him on anything as he is always in line with the rules and doesn't sell guns. So talk about being harassed.

                    Speaking about quick draw guys....... check this out...

                    http://www.wimp.com/fastestgunman/

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                    • #25
                      We used Ruger .22 single six guns because they were strong and could take the beating. I retimed the guns, recut the cylinder notches, bored the barrel out to 5/16" and half the cylinder to 5/16". We put wax slugs in the end of the cyl. and used .22 crimps. We shot with a timer at a man sized target and hitting the target turned off the timer. One sweep of the hand was one second and the face was divided into hundredths. When we shot ballons we used ,22 black powder blanks. We used Alfonso rigs from California and I still have my and my wifes rigs and guns and the timer I built in about 1968.

                      My average with wax was .30 of a second and two others in the club could shoot in the low .20.s with wax. With blanks shooting ballons I could get in the middle to high .20's and my friends could get in the 15-20's. I did what was called a roll out fan in those years but later used the same style the shooter in the video uses. I had to change because it was hurting my rotator cuff. I still practice from time to time, not as fast but still accurate, maybe better.

                      One guy in the club could thumb in the middle .15's with wax which is damn fast. We never tried to shoot doubles like in the video.

                      I have a straight up fancy rig for my .45 single action 1883 Colt I used at demo's. I thumbed the Colt, I didn't fan it. I still have the gun and holster.

                      There was a fastdraw artist, Jammie Marrow, from Louisville Ky that could out shoot anyone at any contest we went to. No matter how fast anyone shot he would shoot just a little faster. We would just shake our heads and walk away. He was like magic. There was another Henderson Ky shooter, Ronnie Phelps, that went on to be a world champion. Damn, those were the days and we sure used them up with pleasure.

                      My friend Chuck and I are as tight as ticks and we shot until a few years ago when he started having heart trouble.

                      Joe, the agent told me back then to keep the license because they didn't really enforce as hard as they were supposed to. I was moving to another state and decided it was best and left the license on the counter at their office.

                      jstinem, read about the Supreme Court. They decide the law according to how they feel, not how the Constitution reads and have done so almost from the start.
                      Last edited by Carld; 03-25-2011, 10:33 PM.
                      It's only ink and paper

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                      • #26
                        Joe, all this talk about Fast Draw has me wanting to go strap my rig on and shoot some but winter has come back so I may do it when it warms up.

                        I went back and watched the video and 2/100 of a second can't be including reaction on the light and drawing. when we shot we stood at the line or walked and had to draw when the light came on and our time included the reaction time on the light and the time it took to draw and the wax to hit the target from 10' standing or 15' to 10' walking.

                        They must be using a different timing method now.

                        If you want some interesting reading get a copy of the book, Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern.
                        Last edited by Carld; 03-25-2011, 11:07 PM.
                        It's only ink and paper

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                        • #27
                          Carld, watching that fast draw vidio was pretty amazing at first untill I watched it a few times paying close attention to the slo mo part. Looking at his holster and how it's angled and the top is cut away, with a short barrel revolver he really isn't drawing it out as they do in the old west pictures. He doesn't have to pull it out much... just enough to to clear the top cutout on the holster tipping it up a bit and fire. So I would call it more of a modified quick draw. But still it's fast.

                          JL........................

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JoeLee
                            Looking at his holster and how it's angled and the top is cut away, with a short barrel revolver he really isn't drawing it out as they do in the old west pictures. He doesn't have to pull it out much... just enough to to clear the top cutout on the holster tipping it up a bit and fire.
                            He's also fanning the shot: it's a single-action, and he pulls the trigger while the gun is still in the holder. He tilts/draws the gun up, and slaps the hammer to fire it. That's why he always has his left hand hovering over the gun.

                            Still, very impressive. It would be fun to see him shoot against Jerry Miculek

                            Last edited by lazlo; 03-26-2011, 12:57 AM.
                            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                            • #29
                              Modern fast draw has little to do with the alleged old west gun fighting. You want to fire the gun just after the barrel leaves the holster. In my roll out style I would pull the gun and twist it and as it came out it would slide up against the belt at the top of the holster level with the target and I would fan it there. There was no lost motion and the movement of the gun was very short. I could fire between .25 and .30 that way. It was hard on my shoulder because you have to pull the drawing hand back so far.

                              I gave that up for the pop up style that almost everyone uses. It is slower but easier on the body. The fastest guns in my area had an average reaction time of 5 hundredths of a second. They said they could see the light starting to glow which I could never do. My average was about 12 hundredths. The average person on the street has a reaction time of close to 1 second. We used to let people test their reaction time if they wanted to.

                              We used to do a demo where anyone from the audience would fire a cocked gun in their hand against one of us drawing and firing. Of course the fastest of the shooters would perform that and none of them ever got beat. Sometimes we would get 10 or 15 people to try it.

                              One of the guys would get someone to face him and hold their hands a foot apart where he would have his gun when he would fire. They were supposed to clap their hands when they saw him start to draw and have them closed before he could put the gun between them. I don't remember anyone ever getting their hands together without his gun between their hands. The gun was empty and he didn't fan it, just draw it.

                              At a demo at West Point Ky a State Trouper said you can't fast draw a Sam Brown rig. I bought a Sam Brown rig like the cops used and a S&W .22 combat master piece and S&W a .38 combat master piece and started practicing. The next year he showed up again and I put on a demo drawing from the Sam Brown in a normal standing position and walking position like a cop would be doing and shot in the .50's with wax. He was impressed. Oh, and the strap was snapped down for each shot and I had to release it with my thumb as I was drawing. It wasn't easy on my thumb for sure.
                              Last edited by Carld; 03-26-2011, 10:22 AM.
                              It's only ink and paper

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Carld
                                jstinem, read about the Supreme Court. They decide the law according to how they feel, not how the Constitution reads and have done so almost from the start.
                                FWIW, Congress has the power under the Exceptions clause to put things outside of SCOTUS's jurisdiction. The power is, however, rarely exercised.

                                I have a little hope because of what's happened with the 2nd amendment over the past 15 years. After the Columbine shooting I thought gun rights would be toast, but that actually turned out to be the high-water mark for the other side.

                                My dream is to see the Supremes apply the 10th Amendment as aggressively as they apply the $#@!%^& Interstate Commerce Clause. I would gladly trade a 25% federal tax and a 5% state tax for a 5% federal tax and a 25% state tax. The federal government is simply too large. It's not just an issue of it doing things it shouldn't, it's that it does poorly at the things it should do. And it makes it too tempting and easy a target for moochers on all sides.

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