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  • OT: New Engine OP-OC

    http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/O...posed-Cylinder

    Have they re-invented the deltic theory.

    Rob

  • #2
    I am surprised by the amount of time, money, and effort wasted on reinventing the wheel. Another great way to spend the tax dollars.
    "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

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    • #3
      I have mentioned the concept and development of this engine on these pages in the last year or two and believe it to be a promising new concept.
      In addition to the concept first being pitched to the US military, who have expressed great interest, it appears now to have some major private sector backing.

      Navistar International earlier this year signed a development agreement with the OPOC engine's parent company Ecomotors.
      Along with Navistar backing, Bill Gates and billionaire investor Vinod Khosla have also made major financial contributions to the engine's technological development.

      http://www.fleetmag.com/web/online/I...ational/1$5123


      This concept and the company isn't one of those..."look, my car runs on water" hucksters.
      Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
      Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

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      • #4
        Interesting to note the designer sounds German ish...

        It looks like he's added a pinch of jumo204 to a 1956 Ferry Porsche OP design.

        There does seem to be some milage yet for unusual IC designs

        http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonPatOP.htm

        Rob

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        • #5
          I didn't watch the whole video, but I think the only benefit to a design like this would be the ability to burn more fuel with a smaller engine, or to put it another way, a larger combustion chamber without increasing the overall size of the engine.

          Efficiency wise and complexity wise, I'll have to think on that one, not sure if the benefits will outweigh the detriments.

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          • #6
            Interesting to note the designer sounds German ish...

            Prof. Peter Hofbauer, Ecomotors founder and chairman, was with Volkswagen AG for over 20 years where among other things he conceived, developed, and brought into production Volkswagen's first diesel engine.

            Efficiency wise and complexity wise, I'll have to think on that one, not sure if the benefits will outweigh the detriments.
            I'm not saying that this will be the Holy Grail of IC engines, but these are the comments regarding the engines technological potential, bare in mind this is from from one of it's major investment partners, Vinod Khosla. Biased perhaps, but the man is a very shrewd and informed investor.
            Between himself, Bill Gates, and Navistar International I don't believe there's a whole lot of uninformed wild guess left on the table.

            Quoted from my link above:

            “We are delighted that Navistar, a global leader in the commercial vehicle industry, has recognized the game-changing promise of opoc,” said Khosla. “The only truly disruptive technologies are those that can provide not only rapid payback but also economic and carbon benefits to large segments of the world's population without the need for subsidies or massive infrastructure investments.
            “Among next-generation propulsion systems, the opoc engine is broadly applicable and can provide lower carbon emissions than almost any other technology.”
            Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
            Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

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            • #7
              military ..must be too dirty for public use ..me thinks

              all the best.markj

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              • #8
                Two things that Khosla is very good at are talking up his own book and finding ways to take money from the government. VCs love to pose as the truest acolytes of the free market, but most of them *love* businesses with regulatory angles. Either the government is your customer or you get laws passed which require people to buy something like your product.

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                • #9
                  And what happens when Ecomotors look like they are going to win a major contract to replace the diesel on a popular platform (whatever that might be)..

                  A contract which was hard fought for originally by the senator/s of the state who have the manufacturing facility in their back yard.

                  Twisted arms in Washington..the odd bribe heaven forbid (the UK still remembers how the Starfighter bribes in early euroland killed off Saunders Roe ,and the Canadian Arrow).

                  What happened to the Orbital engine..10 yrs ago that was the bees knees..Ford involved etc..

                  America loves V8s , be it petrol,diesel or for water pumps..and the low revving, low power ..1/2 a million miles before its run in suits the vast distances travelled in the US.

                  Formula 1 want to go to V4 1.6ltr turbo engines for the 2013 season..but Ferrari and a few other are against it..as they do not see a market demand for it in the US..even if the engines develop 650-1000 bhp.

                  Rob

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                  • #10
                    Old technology folks.
                    Do the words "research grant" ring a bell ? $$$$$$

                    Junkers used it for aircraft in the second world war
                    It was originally patented in 1922 by Napier I believe

                    The big problem for the single crankshaft version ,which the video failed to mention , is lubrication. The oil control is of great concern, and accumulates in the exhaust manifold. Without extra oil, the engine siezes up. With it, you have a real smoke generator.
                    Not trying to knock the designers, they may be on to something, or they may just be spending taxpayers money for naught.
                    If it was totally privately funded, great, but it is not !
                    Private companies do not create research missions with the word "Defense" in the group title
                    Rich

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                    • #11
                      Yup - old news and even with all the bugs taken out there's really nothing to write home about,
                      The "engineer" states that with the pistons going half stroke that double the RPM's can be achieved and therefore horsepower respectively, So what,,,
                      The trickery here is that you cannot look at this engine and count the cylinders as the number for displacement but still need to look at each individual pistons bore and stroke --- so it's the same thing as taking a typical two stroke and creating an extra piston and chopping both the strokes in half - YES you get double the crank speed -- but you also get 1/2 the torque production from each piston - but remember there's two of them now and that equates to approximately the same torque rating (actually not quite) with the added ability to rap out to double the rpm's - so - if you can keep your volumetric efficiency up at higher RPM's (which you can't unless you turbo or super it)
                      you can effectively achieve double the HP's - but not so quick -- not with those flimsy looking long rods and freakish looking upper pistons, Your far better off going conventional and keeping things solid and tight and minimum,

                      Once again and just like the Ducati's example that's linked too two massive inferior connecting rods and "linkage" to multi-cylinders --- Now - here's some hillbilly that has reduced the stroke to take advantage of higher RPM's yet has created an engine that is mechanically flawed for higher rpm running when compared to a conventional one...
                      So you do nothing but end up with the worst of both worlds --- small displacement per piston size engines that cannot take advantage of the rpm's.. So you got low torque due to the stroke cut in half and low RPM's due to the hillbilly linkage which equate directly to low hp's...

                      He's right about one unique factor --- the crank is not being loaded into the main bearings under compression or combustion - this is pretty cool and unique and a little more energy is being delivered back to the crank because of it...

                      I like it better than the Ducati V/8 -- but that's not saying much...

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                      • #12
                        It's logical they are marketing it to the defense industry as that is the only possible customer. The lack of proper flow into and out of the cylinder will make sure it'll never meet current emission standards for passenger vehicles.

                        Igor

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                        • #13
                          Not needing a cylinder head is worthwhile

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                          • #14
                            Yeah but so is having one piston and one connecting rod do the work of two pistons and three connecting rods

                            besides - all a cylinder head is on a two stroke is a dead end cap off...
                            Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 04-19-2011, 11:34 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I guess time will tell if this concept proves fruitful.
                              I know this group is a somewhat skeptical one at best and rightfully so as there are an awful lot of crackpots out there ready to reel in the suckers.

                              I would like to add though that the Ecomotors is financed with private sector funds.

                              EcoMotors is a Michigan-based development company financed primarily by Khosla Ventures and Microsoft chairman Bill Gates.........

                              I also find it somewhat ironic that although it has met a cool reception here, one of North America's largest truck and diesel engine manufactures, who's engineering talent is far from lacking, has seen fit to invest in the concept.
                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

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