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  • opinions please:

    An r8 bench top milling-drilling machine, (Square colum):
    Brand and model: King Mod. KC20VS .

    What do you guys recommend as a basic tooling package to purchase?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    everything, you will need it eventually.
    The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

    Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

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    • #3
      basic? R8 collets, drill chuck, strap clamp set, set of parallels and a vise - has to be kurt style that pull the movable jaw down. maybe you a boring head and angle plates as well. That's the basics, then you get into rotary tables, indexing heads, collet blocks etc
      .

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      • #4
        I'd suggest a 4" vise for that mill. Get a boxed set of 2 and 4 flute endmills from 1/8 to 3/4. A 2 or 2 and 1/2 inch 45 degree face mill would be nice, as well as a good quality set of drill bits. A set of 1/2/3 blocks and v-blocks might be handy. A good dial test indicator is a must for tramming and for aligning the vise.

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        • #5
          Some center drills would be useful.

          Not sure what level you are working at; the below is mostly if you are a novice...

          I have a 30 class machine with different branding from the same manufacturer.

          Due to space limitations, I use mine as my primary drill press. The drill chuck it comes with is marginal at best; you will likely want a better one, particularly for drilling small holes, but it can wait if necessary. While the vice is great for drilling, a block of sacrificial material (e.g. aluminum) bolted to the table makes it into a decent drill press.

          If you are not aware of them, take a look at littlemachineshop.com's how-to's for some writeups on tooling choices. If you are interested in inexpensive tooling, they also have a package deal that may be of interest. (Probably best to mount the vice without the swivel base until needed).

          If you don't have them, you will also want a soft mallet for the drawbar when changing collets, an oilcan (the one provided, if any, is likely marginal), some way to clean up chips (chip brush, T-slot cleaner, shop vac).

          Also, I found hex bolts easier to deal with than the provided table travel locking screws.

          p.s. With these machines, it is important run in low range whenever possible.
          Hemi-proprietor,
          Esoteric Garage

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          • #6
            Originally posted by paulsv
            I'd suggest a 4" vise for that mill. Get a boxed set of 2 and 4 flute endmills from 1/8 to 3/4. A 2 or 2 and 1/2 inch 45 degree face mill would be nice, as well as a good quality set of drill bits. A set of 1/2/3 blocks and v-blocks might be handy. A good dial test indicator is a must for tramming and for aligning the vise.
            I agree on the boxed set. They are comparativly cheap and a good way to learn the ins and outs of milling. After you learn not to snap them you can treat yourself to a real set. I paid for something like $50 bucks for my set of 2 and 4 flute chicom cutters and still use most of them all though some have bit the dust due to in-experianced pilot. I just picked up a shoe box 1/2 full of cutters and misc machinist tools for $25 at a yard sale. Must be 30 cutters in there many of which are carbide and all appear to be sharp. The guy wanted $35 but I asked him "what's the chance of someone walking in here who knows what they are for?" He lives out in the countryside with very little traffic!
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            • #7
              Forgive the ignorance, but I assume everyone asking a question like this has little if any experience with machine tool operation. I recommend starting off simple with only the bare necessities - a good drill chuck, vise, drill bits, and some end mills. I avoid the box sets - typically you only need a few sizes, but will want multiples of those sizes. With these tools I always recommend people try making some of their own tooling like hold down sets, T-nuts, fly cutters, parallels, angle plates etc as first projects. When youre just starting out and on a budget, buying these other tools is mainly an unnecessary luxury, especially since you have little need for super accurate parallels or a million unnecessary clamps when youre still learning the capabilities of the machine. With the money you save on these, you can buy some of the measuring tools that you most likely dont have but will need - indicators (dial and finger both), mics (outside, inside), calipers etc. From what I have seen, it seems to me that most people start out buying too much tooling, and not enough measuring tools. You should also consider visiting a few used book stores and the library, and begin reading as much as possible about machine tool operations. You can learn a lot by doing in this hobby, but you would be surprised by the possibilities shown in some vintage texts from the pre-CNC era. Regardless of what you do....good luck and enjoy.
              Last edited by justanengineer; 06-09-2011, 10:08 AM.
              "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

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              • #8
                reply,

                Thanks much to all who contributed to my question concerning a basic milling package for that mill.

                Yes, i have little experience with a mill as this will be my first. I orderd the mill today.
                In my research i found three mills that appear to be the same,, The "Lathemaster," Mathews Precision", and the canadian version we have here Labeled "King Industrial Tools of Canada."

                The reason i ordered this mill over say the "Busy Bee " model is the table on this mill appears to have about 3 inches more "X" travel . (And the price is about the same, the finish also appears to be better.)

                I have a bit of tooling collected up over the past year, and wondered if i was missing something . Most of what you recommened i have on my other order list, and that order is going out soon.

                I,m still a little baffled as to the best vise for this mill. I,m at present considering a 4x1 3/4x4 Palmgren,,, and the KBC 5x1 3/4x4 vice.
                Both are swivel base.
                Any suggestions on the vice, too big, too high etc??? (Palmgren states 3 3/8in high, 18 lbs,the KBC gives no height or weight.
                Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
                I will be ordering the stuff from KBC tools

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                • #9
                  I bought a 5" Kurt type vise from Little Machine Shop at the Cabin Fever Show and it turned out to be a very accurate piece of work. OK it's not a Kurt but it was less then 1/3 the price (important for the hobbyist and the very cheap) and it is darn close. Worth a look, other styles of vises are not worth looking at.
                  The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                  Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

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                  • #10
                    I noticed those Kurt clones, and wondered about the vise jaw lift problem that Mcgyver reminded me about.

                    Hmmmmm.

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                    • #11
                      I bought a 5" glacern - I love it, but it is probably overkill in terms of accuracy. It's a nice size for my 8x27 (or so) table.

                      The extra inch over a 4" vice is significant - if you want to do something to a long workpiece, it involves fewer re-positionings.
                      Hemi-proprietor,
                      Esoteric Garage

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sasquatch
                        I noticed those Kurt clones, and wondered about the vise jaw lift problem that Mcgyver reminded me about.

                        Hmmmmm.
                        The first thing I did with the one I bought from LMS was to try some test to check out it's accuracy. This was done with the rotary base removed.

                        Side to side on a parallel was - .0008"

                        Lift of the movable jaw when tightening the jaw on a workpiece - no noticeable movement on the indicator.

                        parallelism of the top of the vise (Kurt type vises can have work pieces clamped to the top of the vise for a larger capacity) to the bed from one end to the other and side to side on the top of the vise - < .0005"

                        The only area that was out was the fixed jaw, running an indicator up and down on it showed a small error, this was quickly if temporarily fixed with a bit of shim stock behind the jaw. It is now less then .001" out.

                        I don't know how much better a Kurt would be considering the price difference but for the home shop it is more then adequate.
                        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

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