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Mystery Tool is for Honing Reamers

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  • Mystery Tool is for Honing Reamers

    The Mystery tool which I posted is a tool for honing reamers. Forum memeber Optics Curmudgeon found the patent. Here is the patent drawing followed by my original pic:



    "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

  • #2
    It's a strange patent. There is nothing clever about this tool, nothing that seems patentable.
    Allan Ostling

    Phoenix, Arizona

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    • #3
      Originally posted by aostling
      It's a strange patent. There is nothing clever about this tool, nothing that seems patentable.
      Yes, it's amazing what seems to be patentable. All it does is hold the reamer in position for honing.
      "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jep24601
        Yes, it's amazing what seems to be patentable. All it does is hold the reamer in position for honing.
        And it provides a guide for the honing tool, which has in one option a contour (see number 28) apparently for guiding the hone angle in a specific path or locating it. I have not looked up the patent to see the exact plan.

        if you think it is not useful or patentable, I recommend that you hand-hone a reamer without a guide. See what happens.
        1601

        Keep eye on ball.
        Hashim Khan

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        • #5
          It is funny to me how obvious it is that this is a fixture for honing reamers, now that someone told me what it was!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by J Tiers
            .....if you think it is not useful or patentable, I recommend that you hand-hone a reamer without a guide. See what happens.
            Useful and patentable are different issues Jerry.

            I would have thought that by 1923 someone would have already thought up a way to hone a reamer with a guide.
            "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jep24601
              Useful and patentable are different issues Jerry.

              I would have thought that by 1923 someone would have already thought up a way to hone a reamer with a guide.
              Of course....

              "a way" no doubt was found.

              But many many patents are for *different* ways to do the same thing..... often to get around an existing patent.

              It's still going on. I know of patents which are clearly "anticipated" by prior patents, but they issued a just the same. Not just my opinion, our patent attorneys said the same thing, but they also said it would cost us a couple million to prove it, and even then the applicable court district *never* invalidates patents, so we'd likely get nothing for our money.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Comment


              • #8
                My name is on nearly 20 patents. Some are clever, some obvious, some seem like they are not worth patenting. All are paid for by my current and previous employers. Without exception they are intended to block competition.

                I am proud to have my name on these patents. However, I recognize that they are not a direct reflection on my skill as an engineer. I just happened to be working on something the company wished to protect.

                Patents are about business, not engineering.

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                • #9
                  I'm a little puzzled by one feature of the patent drawing shown. In Fig 3 he shows a holder for the stone with a concave under surface. That will change the angle of the stone on the reamer depending on how far it's extended, but I can't see why that would be wanted. The tooth angle will ordinarily be determined by the tooth rest, and if you wanted a secondary angle you'd set it by moving the tooth rest. So what does that feature do for honing reamers?
                  .
                  "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sometimes patent attorneys get a bit tricky, and try to anticipate challenges. In the case of the curved underside it doesn't necessarily make sense from a use point of view (fig 2 is much more straightforward), but to block someone who comes up with the same thing but has a concave under surface (the old "It's not the same - mine invention is better because it's curved" defense), they may have included it, hence as an add on (figure 3). I once had a PA suggest all sorts of things to me for this reason.
                    Having said that provided things were properly positioned it could give a curved profile on the back of the reamer edge. At the time of invention this may have been seen as desirable (better strength, smoother cut, what ever)

                    Michael

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jep24601
                      I would have thought that by 1923 someone would have already thought up a way to hone a reamer with a guide.
                      -For those that think it's "obvious" or that 1923 seems "late" to have patented such a thing, keep in mind the O-ring was patented in 1939. Yes, as in the ubiquitous round rubber seal. Wasn't patented 'til just before WW2.

                      Doc.
                      Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Doc Nickel
                        -For those that think it's "obvious" or that 1923 seems "late" to have patented such a thing, keep in mind the O-ring was patented in 1939. Yes, as in the ubiquitous round rubber seal. Wasn't patented 'til just before WW2.

                        Doc.

                        And you'd a thunk that it would be "obvious to one skilled in the art" if they had ever seen piston rod gland packing...... or valve packing......

                        But there is an argument with a good deal of force that the o-ring is fundamentally different from a material and production standpoint.

                        Arguing the merits of a patent has more sides and varieties of claims than you can imagine..... "new" or "novel" can be broad, or narrow.

                        An improvement, such as the idea of a curved surface, is perhaps patentable, but not useful unless you can either make the original patented machine that you have improved, OR you can sell the patent for a nice sum to the owners of the original patent.

                        Otherwise you can't do much since you can't make the machine, although you can make replacement parts with the curve, assuming the rest of the holder is not in the original claims. And they can't use your improvement without buying you out. It's a standoff, , one they probably win if you can't make the holder due to their claims.
                        1601

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TGTool
                          I'm a little puzzled by one feature of the patent drawing shown. In Fig 3 he shows a holder for the stone with a concave under surface. That will change the angle of the stone on the reamer depending on how far it's extended, but I can't see why that would be wanted. The tooth angle will ordinarily be determined by the tooth rest, and if you wanted a secondary angle you'd set it by moving the tooth rest. So what does that feature do for honing reamers?
                          Well, some more rumination I think has clarified it for me. If the stone holder with the concave depression in it is set up using the straight section and tooth rest to establish the cutting edge with its slight clearance, the concavity will automatically generate a clearance.

                          I was first envisioning that if it was setup using the depression as shown in the figure it would start to created a negative angle at the cutting edge as the back end of the stone was raised. Which is true, but it needs to be envisioned (and set up) the opposite way and it all works out.
                          .
                          "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It is my understanding that a reamer is intended to slightly enlarge a hole EXACTLY true to size. If this is so, then would not honing the reamer make it cut somewhat, (albeit only a little,) undersize? Therefore, what is the benefit of the tool? It clearly is not intended as a production tool, since it is hand-operated.
                            In 1923, most reamers would have been high carbon steel, and not kept an edge as long as HSS, but it seems to me that this was a "patentable device" that served no REALLY useful purpose except to produce sharp, undersize reamers.
                            Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Duffy
                              It is my understanding that a reamer is intended to slightly enlarge a hole EXACTLY true to size. If this is so, then would not honing the reamer make it cut somewhat, (albeit only a little,) undersize? Therefore, what is the benefit of the tool? It clearly is not intended as a production tool, since it is hand-operated.
                              In 1923, most reamers would have been high carbon steel, and not kept an edge as long as HSS, but it seems to me that this was a "patentable device" that served no REALLY useful purpose except to produce sharp, undersize reamers.
                              Most reamers cut on the front edge.... Either a sharp angle, as with machine reamers, OR a long angle as with hand reamers.

                              If honed on the front only, they would remain the same size. Wear will reduce the OD.

                              If a newly made reamer is cut and/or rough ground, they could be honed to size with this device.....

                              An existing reamer can be honed to an exact undersize for press fit as with dowel pins.

                              I would not say it is useless.
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              Comment

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