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  • #31
    Originally posted by Evan
    MasterCraft tools aren't copies of SnapOn tools. They are SnapOn tools without the name. Design patents are very easy to get both in the US and Canada. The shape of the SnapOn tools is protected by a design patent and a company the size of Canadian Tire won't be copying that. The MasterCraft tools are well made if you buy the Maximum brand.
    I think you're probably right, the high end crappy snappy mechanics tools are very well made and for sure Canadian Tire doesn't own a wrench plant....someone is making them. These are the true deep dark corporate secrets, for example Duracell is the largest supplier of white label batteries, but you'll never get a Duracell exec to go on the record confirming it....its good through put for them but having it leaked wreaks havoc on the value of the brand. Which, viewed one way, is the value between white lable and the branded product

    While the tools are excellent, I don't think it can be unbiasedly argued that the tools are 2x, 3x 4x or more as good as other top makes. Some of what snap on charges is because of the distribution model - to the mechanic there's value in having the truck show up . But a big part of it is the cache they've created within their target market - they've sort of become an industrial Hermes. While no doubt the tools are excellent they've done an amazing job of convincing an industry there's magnitudes more value than competitive products. Here's a very mature, low tech product, industrial market with lots of competition and they're pulling down 46% gross margins with no IP other than their brand! That's a culture not a product; an amazing corporate marketing accomplishment. A bit like Coke - it's absolute BS that the formula is a secret, but it won't taste like a coke without the swirl on the can.

    Jerry, are you sure on that warranty bit? I thought the guy on the truck (franchisee) might baulk in which case you send it directly to snap on who replaces it.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by justanengineer
      Also, to me, any time an American company chooses to export jobs overseas its outsourcing.
      Its more than semantics, we have to be on the same page on use of words or discussion breaks down. If I decide its not worth having my own powder coating line or payroll clerk or uniform washing dept or cafeteria, I hire a payroll service or powder coater or cintas or food service co - could be a firm across the street - that's outsourcing. It could also be a plant in China. its outsourcing when you take something done inside the company and get someone outside to do it. The idea is to put capital and people toward the key things, core competencies, strategic things etc and let someone else do the non strategic items

      For sure lots of outsourcing has been to overseas firms done to save labour costs and has hurt manufacturing here ....the why and who to blame and what to do are complicated, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Outsourcing makes huge sense in many areas and does not mean the job is going overseas; a great deal of it is domestic
      Last edited by Mcgyver; 07-20-2011, 03:08 PM.
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      • #33
        3/8" Snap-On: $260.00




        3/8" Precision Instruments: $60.00 (Sale price)



        Other than one being blue, and one being red, there is NO difference between it and my 1/2" Snap-On wrench. (top 2 in pic.)

        The last shop I worked in, the only people buying Snap-On tools were the new young guys that didn't know any better. I suppose they want to try and impress people by going into debt up to their eyeballs with a 22% interest rate...

        The guy driving the truck would not warranty any tools unless you kept a sizable balance due on your truck account. If you didn't keep buying tools it was always "Oh, I don't have any on the truck right now - they are on back order - factory is down for a tooling change - my dog ate it - etc., etc. when it came to a warranty replacement. One guy in the shop fought him for SIX MONTHS trying to get a standard combination wrench replaced.

        I've got about 25K tied up in there tools - but no more.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Mcgyver
          Jerry, are you sure on that warranty bit? I thought the guy on the truck (franchisee) might baulk in which case you send it directly to snap on who replaces it.
          I learned when I was in the tool room in the military a few years back...

          SnapOn's warranty applies to the original purchaser only and via the original franchisee. If you buy direct, youre supposed to return direct. If you buy off the truck its supposed to go through that specific truck. That being said, many of the truck dealers and SO direct customer reps will take a tool and not question its origin - business savvy means taking care of customers. Unfortunately, there are quite a few dealers as well who will fight you on everything. FYI - there are quite a few SO hand tools not covered under the lifetime warranty with either a limited 1 yr or no warranty. Also, if you return something via SO direct, they do keep track of your returns and will not honor warranties if you break too much too rapidly. They do so bc often they dont ask for the broken tool to be returned simply to destroy it, and want to discourage the professional SO used tool dealers.
          Last edited by justanengineer; 07-20-2011, 01:29 PM.
          "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

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          • #35
            [quote=J.Ramsey]............

            Probably have $20-22 thousand in my Snap On tools, no regrets........

            /quote]

            Agreed
            Our family immigrated to the US in 1956 from the Netherlands.
            As an auto mechanic, my father was not able to bring over the tools of his trade.
            He immediately saw the quality in the Snap-On tools, which already were an iconic brand here, and struggled to both feed his family and build up his tool inventory. He knew that a quality tool would not only make his work more productive, but also realized that he could not afford to buy tools twice.
            The Snap-On tools served him very well, and ultimately they put my brother and I through school and into adulthood.
            I have been fortunate enough to have inherited his tools many years ago and have since added to them. I can certainly appreciate the reason he chose them. They have outlasted him and I'm sure they will outlast me.

            That being said, I do have to admit that I find it hard to justify the extra cost for the Snap-On brand tools when other brands lately, (the Mastercraft Maximum that Evan mentioned comes to mind), have the same feel, quality, and warranty that Snap-On does, without the high price. It used to be that a socket or the closed end of a combination wrench made by Snap-On would fit where others would not...and survive.
            This is not the case anymore.

            Like any other industry here they have had a lot of very good competitors with which to deal with. They either have to adapt to the new world marketplace, or disappear from the landscape. There will always be a place for quality tools, but in this segment the line between consumer and pro quality is getting hard to define.
            Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
            Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

            Location: British Columbia

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            • #36
              Originally posted by justanengineer
              SnapOn's warranty applies to the original purchaser only and via the original franchisee. If you buy direct, youre supposed to return direct. If you buy off the truck its supposed to go through that specific truck.
              Interesting. So something like Canadian Tire's high end line or Sears if they have one could be a better bet - if they tool has their name on it they replace it, no proof of purchase etc.

              Fluke plays the warranty game as well. The so called lifetime warranty is a warranty only until 10 years after the item is out of production AND is not transferable AND they charge a mandatory +- $100 calibration fee for any warranty work

              For the tradesman using the tool that's fine, but this totally breaks down in the used market. The man buying snap on or fluke pays a premium in part for the warranty....but there is no warranty when they sell yet it does click that that part of the value isn't transferable. How many flukes do you see for sale with the vendor advertising the lifetime warranty? gotta watch out for these things.
              .

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              • #37
                My limited assortment of Snap-On tools are from the 1950s, and were left to me by my dad. The balance, feel, and size are excellent, and I use them often. The 3/8 inch ratchet is my favorite. However, I cannot afford to buy new SO tools, so I buy Craftsman or, lately, Armstrong from online sources. Both still say " made in USA" on them. We all have our favorite tools, and my other favorites are Bonney tools and Williams tools, again from the 1950s.
                When it came to buying 3/4 inch drive socket sets in english and metric sizes, however, I defaulted to Chinese because of cost.

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                • #38
                  Kinda an interesting topic!

                  Ok, here's one i have wondered about for years or decades even:

                  Think back to lets say 50 years up till now-around the 1960's on,,,,Out of the thousands of full tool sets that mechanics have bought over that 50 year period,along with the chests and roll cabinets,,,,

                  "Where are they now? -Where has this stuff all gone to? Wore out and melted down again,, i doubt it with the lifetime warranty much of this stuff had.

                  Any body else wondered about this or knows?????

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                  • #39
                    Craig's list...

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                    • #40
                      Some on Craigs list but where's the rest gone???

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mcgyver
                        Fluke plays the warranty game as well. The so called lifetime warranty is a warranty only until 10 years after the item is out of production AND is not transferable AND they charge a mandatory +- $100 calibration fee for any warranty work

                        For the tradesman using the tool that's fine, but this totally breaks down in the used market. The man buying snap on or fluke pays a premium in part for the warranty....but there is no warranty when they sell yet it does click that that part of the value isn't transferable. How many flukes do you see for sale with the vendor advertising the lifetime warranty? gotta watch out for these things.
                        5 - 6 years ago one of the functions on my Fluke 77 had died and I sent it in for repair under the warranty. IIRC I had to pay the shipping both ways, but that was it. They repaired the meter and sent it back to me with a new calibration certificate.

                        2 years ago I had an A/C - D/C ammeter clamp probe (plug-in to the meter type) that also died and I sent that in as well. This time, the clamp probe was out of production and they said they could not repair it. Instead they charged me 1/2 of the MSRP of the NEW model and sent me one of those in it's place. I can live with that.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by sasquatch
                          Kinda an interesting topic!

                          Ok, here's one i have wondered about for years or decades even:

                          Think back to lets say 50 years up till now-around the 1960's on,,,,Out of the thousands of full tool sets that mechanics have bought over that 50 year period,along with the chests and roll cabinets,,,,

                          "Where are they now? -Where has this stuff all gone to? Wore out and melted down again,, i doubt it with the lifetime warranty much of this stuff had.

                          Any body else wondered about this or knows?????
                          My dad died last month and left my mom a snap on chest full of OLD, OLD Snap on tools.

                          My dad inhereted most of them from his dad, who bought them when he worked as a mechanic. Gramps was born in 1898. I don't know how long snap on has been around but I am guessing a lot of these tools date to the '20's or the '30's.

                          So that is where at least some of them are.

                          Brian
                          OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                          THINK HARDER

                          BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                          MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

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                          • #43
                            Where do old tools go? Thats a good question and I know where some of the end up! It was my practice for many years to stop my car and walk around the grass verges of traffic round abouts where all the bits that really did fall of trucks end up. Even my bench vice (with a bent handle) came from a roadside find.

                            In earlier years the roads authorities had magnetic trucks that picked up all the scraps of metal from roadsides, mostly nails and nuts etc but quite often vehicle jacks that people forget to put back in the boot (i.e. trunk). I have a nice screw bottle jack that claims to be good for 25cwt which came from meeting a magnetic truck driver.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by J.Ramsey
                              You sir evidently have never used Snap On tools.
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                              .Or Spellchecker either.
                              care to place a wager on that lets see ill bet you your house your car and your entire tool collection i own some snap on tools buddy, i have also used a far share of snap on tools at dealer ships i worked in as well and a few garages .. me thinks you need to glasses to if oyu read some of my posts they are very clear as to tools i own and use , ,as well as many other brands ,, and snap on is a joke tool over rated over priced **** warranty,, ummm screams junk to me..

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                              • #45
                                Airsmith,NONE of your posts are clear. You need to care enough what you have to say to write properly.

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