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OT: Anyone know anything about crt display repair?

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  • OT: Anyone know anything about crt display repair?

    I have a little 4.5" monochrome CRT Display in a deposition controller I have. It runs on 12v and uses NTSC. Pretty generic.

    Its Dead.

    I have high voltage, getting about 260v to the screen grid, filament is glowing. Scope shows activity on horizontal and vertical deflection. I can see the amplified video signal at the cathode on the tube.

    What am I missing? Not enough HV? Poisoned cathode?

    Checked the video output with another display and the video is good. If all else fails I will just run an external display.

    -Jerry

  • #2
    Check for failed electrolytic capacitors in the power supply. That can cause insufficient voltage to the flyback oscillator and reduce the HV enough that no beam current flows. The horizontal sweep osc usually supplies the drive to the flyback transformer. Other possibilities are bad flyback xformer or shorted high tension lead. Clean all and apply insulating laquer to the xformer and HT lead.

    Try to avoid getting zapped. It's decidedly unpleasant.
    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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    • #3
      If you have an appropriate probe, check for high voltage on the CRT (sometimes you can sense it moving the back of your hand towards the CRT face and feel the electrostatic forces on your hairs). No high voltage is usually due to a failed switcher that drives the flyback.

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      • #4
        There is high voltage. I get a spark when I discharge the tube.

        I do have a HV probe, I just need to hook it up.

        This is the board. Really compact so it will be hard to replace with something else.


        CRT board by macona, on Flickr
        Last edited by macona; 08-03-2011, 04:45 PM.

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        • #5
          Very often with those small CRT's the filamament is fed from the H.O.T., if so and you have filament voltage it usually means the flyback is OK.
          Maybe just very low emission, did it fail suddenly?
          You could try placing a load resistor from cathode to grid to see if any kind of emission exists, this has the effect of reducing the grid bias voltage.
          Max.

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          • #6
            It was dead when I got it.

            The filament is ran directly from the 12v power input. This circuit has the video signal to the cathode with the G1 at ground. I did try a resistor and nothing.

            Found a datasheet on the controller, NEC uPC1379C. Gives me a bit of the circuit as they seem to have followed the app circuit pretty closely.

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            • #7
              Sounds like no HV if I have understood your info.
              Measure and then you will know. Or use back of arm (hairs) to see if you get a 'rise'.
              John Burchett
              in Byng OK

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              • #8
                Someone gave me an old Heathkit flyback tester a while back when I was working on the DRO with the bad display missing a HV probe for it. I found my HV probe and it looks like the one that is supposed to be for it. I hooked it to my 0-50KV adjustable power supply and the reading was about where it should be.

                So measuring the HV I get about 5.5kv. Seems a little low to me but I can't find specs on this tube, and it is pretty small. Since I have that adjustable power supply I set it to positive out and hooked that up to the CRT and slowly raised it. Nothing. Until I got to about 15kv when it looks like it arced in the tube. When that happened I got a little bit of something.

                Thinking the CRT is bad. Guess it wouldn't surprise me too much, it is 15 years old and heavily burned in. Might have been on that entire time depending on where it was used. When I had it hooked to an external monitor it showed the last time a coating run was ran was last october. The internal clock was only off by 30 minutes.

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                • #9
                  Know anybody with a picture tube rejuvenator? We used to have one- hook up, wait for filament to heat, push button. Sparks fly internally, tube works again. Sometimes pretty good, often better but not really good, sometimes no change.

                  It could be gassy, in which case it's game over. Mind you- some of us have vacuum pumps and glass blowing equipment - you could try to re-evacuate the tube.
                  I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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                  • #10
                    Hadn't thought about that. But then I would need to rig up something to refire the getter internally, either that or break the seal in an argon enclosure.

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                    • #11
                      I picked up another bad unit from the same seller. This one would not start up but it turned out to have the cpu card come loose. Putting it back in it came up but all the video was compressed down to about 1/2" vertically. I tried the monitor board from the first one and it did the same thing, so the first CRT was bad after all.

                      Replaced a couple old electrolytics and the vertical deflection transistor and now I have a good image.

                      If anyone is wondering what this thing is, its a Film Thickness Controller for a vacuum system. This works with deposition systems like sputtering and evaporation to measure and control the rate of deposition. The controller connects to an oscillator that has a remote quartz crystal that is in the vacuum chamber that normally oscillates at 6MHz. As material builds up the frequency of the crystal changes and based on the density of the material. You can measure the film thickness down to the angstrom. These are also know as Quartz Crystal Microbalances. I can breathe on the sensor and it can measure the thickness of the water vapor film and watch it evaporate on the display!


                      Sycon STC-201 by macona, on Flickr

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                      • #12
                        BTW, DX has some nice colour LCD displays that would fit in the hole for as low as $35. Standard NTSC composite video input and excellent resolution.
                        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Evan
                          BTW, DX has some nice colour LCD displays that would fit in the hole for as low as $35. Standard NTSC composite video input and excellent resolution.
                          That was the first thing I tried. I also tried that with the DRO that I had that had a bad CRT. Two problems with them, first the resolution is pretty low on the standard NTSC input displays. Text is rather hard to read as the dot pattern is different from regular LCD panels. NTSC is 480 lines vertical and most of the NTSC LCDs are only about 240 pixels high.

                          Second problem is they overscan and most equipment that uses a crt for data underscans so there is clipping at the edges.

                          I did try one little data input LCD we have here at work and it did work fine, its just the little display was near $300.

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                          • #14
                            Yeah, that is true of most of the small LCDs, but not all. They have one that I bought that is very high res and cost $35.

                            This is from an NTSC camera in my video microscope.



                            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                            • #15
                              Do you have the model of that?

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