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QCTP What one should I buy??

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  • QCTP What one should I buy??

    First up I have one I found in the pages of The Home Shop Machinist. It's from CDCOTOOLS.COM part number 29462 http://www.cdcotools.com/

    Second on my short list is a PhaseII from Enco. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=PB505-2172

    The cost difference is signifigant CDCO has them for $89 per the ad in this months issue, $96 regular. Enco in $160. Sorry purists an Aloris is out of the question, I can't spend that much coin on a Chi-Com lathe.

    I have ordered a few times from Enco with great service, Never from CDCO, anybody know anything about them? I need this for a project I posted about before, and will be posting pics of after I finish this. Thanks again guys. I need to get this on order real quick, if you know of any others that should be on my short list please let me know.

    I can order the CDCO now but if the Phase II is worth the extra ching, I will just have to put away a few more scheckels and get it next week. Keith

  • #2
    The QCTP is not the place to cut corners. I bought a Dorian. I have a goodly number of Dorian tool holders which are unreasonably expensive, but in some cases they are worth the difference. I use a lot of the CDCO holders which have worked well for the everday holders. I don't have any experience with the cheaper QCTP. They may be all right but they could sure cause a lot of aggrivation if they were not. I started with a four way and next tried the lantern. I don't pull those out very often anymore but they are still usefull on ocasion.
    Byron Boucher
    Burnet, TX

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    • #3
      The Phase II QCTP is a quality product. I have used them in several shops I worked in and have one on my lathe at home. I prefer the wedge type.
      It's only ink and paper

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      • #4
        I have the AXA QCTP from CDCO, together with quite a few of their holders, very happy with them.

        Nothing wrong with CDCO or their tooling, I have bought quite a bit of different tooling from them, have yet to receive a lemon.

        Quite frankly I have compared their tooling to that available locally (Austrlaia) and it appears identical, except that here in Oz they want about 3 times the price for the same imported Chinese tooling.

        So, even with postage from the US, I am far better off, and like I said I am happy with quality.

        I don't think you wold be "cutting corners" by buying their QCTP.

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        • #5
          The only complaints I've heard about CDCO's QCTP kits are the butter-soft set screws and the occasional shipping issues.

          Split the difference and go with the imports from Tools4Cheap, who I have bought from many times and been very pleased with the quality.

          I recently ordered the "Type 1" holders to fit my Dorian CA QCTP. They did take from March 15th until almost August 1st to come in, but they are 1st quality (including the screws.) And Jeff will ship to AUS/NZ for a very reasonable price.

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          • #6
            I'm happy with my CDCO tools. I've gotten several items from them, shipping never a problem, price is right for my budget, any problems & it gets fixed with a phone call to Frank the Chinaman.

            Is it the absolute best equipment? Nope, but I also don't drive a Rolls Royce. Dodge & Plymouth does me just fine.
            Mark

            I haven't always been a nurse.........

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PixMan
              The only complaints I've heard about CDCO's QCTP kits are the butter-soft set screws and the occasional shipping issues.

              Split the difference and go with the imports from Tools4Cheap, who I have bought from many times and been very pleased with the quality.

              I recently ordered the "Type 1" holders to fit my Dorian CA QCTP. They did take from March 15th until almost August 1st to come in, but they are 1st quality (including the screws.) And Jeff will ship to AUS/NZ for a very reasonable price.
              I've read that same thing a few times, but it always seems to be from people that don't actually own the CDCO holders.

              I have quite a few holders, they get used every day, I have yet to experience a problem with the set screws.

              In any case, if there were a problem with the screws, replacing 4 of them with top quality ones shouldn't reak the bank?

              Originally posted by MarkBall2
              I'm happy with my CDCO tools. I've gotten several items from them, shipping never a problem, price is right for my budget, any problems & it gets fixed with a phone call to Frank the Chinaman.

              Is it the absolute best equipment? Nope, but I also don't drive a Rolls Royce. Dodge & Plymouth does me just fine.
              Hear, hear!
              Last edited by Steelmaster; 08-09-2011, 12:29 AM.

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              • #8
                As much as I still think I'd prefer a wedge type, my CDCO AXA has given me no reasons to complaint.

                The one issue I've had was that the holders had too much meat on the bottom, for my lathe. This could be milled or ground off; in my case, faced off the bottom of the compound until the stock holder would take 1/2" tooling. No reason for a 700-pound machine to want 5/16" bits, anyway.

                The screws are soft, and the socket portions are often off-center. They're like what the Chinese won't use for themselves. Haven't stripped one despite the hexes starting to open a bit, but I'll just buy a box of good ones when that happens. No harm done, and you save more than enough to make up for it.

                No, a QCTP isn't the place to cut corners, but the CDCO is built just as well if not better than anything else on Chinese lathes, and is IMO serviceable for anything not aerospace-spec.

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                • #9
                  383 240Z,

                  I bought the CDCO QCTP kit a couple of years ago and have been very satisfied with it. It works well with a variety of different brands of tool holders that I have aquired over the last year or so.

                  That said, if I had it to do over again, I would go for the Phase II. There is not that much difference in price, but after purchasing a Phase II rotary table I feel that the fit and finish of the phase II product was markedly better.

                  Just my .02

                  Tim

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                  • #10
                    Spend a little more and get a multifix. They are awesome. One of the guys did a review on them.

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                    • #11
                      I've had and used several.

                      The cheap CDCO/Shars/bottom-feeder (non) "brands" are obviously the worst. Whether piston on wedge, they have poor feel, lousy lumpy wet mud looking finish, and often need work to make decently serviceable. That said, they generally work well enough for "typical" (I'll leave the definition as an exorcise for the reader) HSM types to get the main benefit, which is quick change without necessarily "perfect" repeatability and decades of daily service service.

                      The Phase II is a clear cut above. IMO it's the sweet spot for price/value. Not much more, but very decent durable and uniform semi-black-oxide finish. The "feel" is far superior, and in my primitive tests it repeats very well given the same (or good/consistent) blocks. Piston is "good enough" and I've owned a few. But I've also had the vibrate loose when trying to work through chatter or interrupted cuts. My last PII was a wedge, and I'll not be buying another piston. Take that for whatever you think it's worth.

                      Then I finally stumbled on a real CXA Aloris with a few Aloris blocks for a very good price. Good enough to even provoke me to get off my wallet! I must say that the difference IS noticeable, about like PII over the bottom-feeders, and I'm very happy with the upgrade. Not happy enough to pay retail, probably not happy enough to pay typical used prices, but clearly preferred without a doubt.

                      I've also used KDK and Multi-Fix as well as the old Enco, Dorian and others. I really like the KDK very much, and the block options are truly amazing, but won't I pay for the blocks. And frankly, I wonder about some of them with respect to design, but hey, they obviously work. IMO Dorian is a competitor a small cut above the PII level. Multi-Fix is just way out there in price, but great none the less. And if it were not for the holder problem, I would love to have an old Enco quad turret with quick change. Great design and idea.
                      Last edited by BadDog; 08-09-2011, 03:40 AM.
                      Russ
                      Master Floor Sweeper

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                      • #12
                        So kinda split down the middle. I'm wondering if it's that the ones who like the CDCO havent had much time with a better QCTP. I'm not knocking either one, I'm just not sure what one I want to purchase. So when in doubt I have a tendency to go up market. Looks like a PII in my future.
                        Now here is a 3rd option. I cruise eBay and find a GOOD tool post and the cheaper holders? Do these things wear out?
                        Also what are the inherant differences between a wedge type and a piston type? Keith

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 383 240z
                          So kinda split down the middle. I'm wondering if it's that the ones who like the CDCO havent had much time with a better QCTP. I'm not knocking either one, I'm just not sure what one I want to purchase. So when in doubt I have a tendency to go up market. Looks like a PII in my future.
                          Now here is a 3rd option. I cruise eBay and find a GOOD tool post and the cheaper holders? Do these things wear out?
                          Also what are the inherant differences between a wedge type and a piston type? Keith
                          The piston type pushes the block out and away from the QCTP body, and may not exhibit repeatability of position or the highest degree of rigidity because it's pushing against that piston. The forces are against two flat surfaces, no wedge action.

                          A wedge type repeats better and seems more rigid because the wedge always forces the interchangeable block back solid into the front vee of the dovetail. You get a secure seat from the wedge action of both adjacent surfaces on the forward vee of the QCTP block being forced against the mating ones on the toolholder block.

                          I still like giving my business to Jeff @ Tools4Cheap.net and know those blocks are hard as can be. I have to mill about .150" off the bottoms of them to be able to bring a 1" toolholder to center on dad's Victor 1640. The operation tests the quality of the face mill inserts, furshure.

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                          • #14
                            Everything wears out. If you don't let it rust, your grandchildren won't see any QCTP worth its salt wear out.

                            A wedge type uses one side of the male part of the dovetail to secure it: pressing outward (into the corner of the female dovetail on the holder) pulls the holder in tight against the face of the toolpost.
                            The piston type uses a piston in the middle of the male portion to push away, using the dovetail itself as the bearing surface, rather than the faces of the holder and toolpost.

                            Wedge types understandably tend to be a little more accurate. But if you're not doing CNC or relying on many repeated changes, just get what jumps out at you.

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                            • #15
                              Strictly speaking an AXA, BXA, CXA, etc is a wedge post, whilst an AX, BX, CX etc is a piston style.

                              I was lucky enough to pick up a near new condition Dorian BXA post for my Harrison L5 on US ebay. Even with shipping to the UK, it came at a reasonable cost. Included were a few Chinese holders that fit the post just fine. I tend to leave my tools in the holders and just keep buying more holders so the quality of the screws isn't quite so important.

                              The holders that I bought from Chronos are a little better finished, but the real difference is the size. Some suppliers are selling AX size holders with a large dovetail to fit the BX size post. Presumably they're doing a similar trick with BX to CX sizing. I don't think I've seen anybody advertising the length of their tool holder, so you can see if you're getting a full size one, or a cut price shorty
                              Paul Compton
                              www.morini-mania.co.uk
                              http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru

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