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Any way to save this threading die?

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  • Any way to save this threading die?

    Bought a new 10-32 die, top quality, American made, $30. On the first thread, a chip from the steel rod I was threading pressure-welded itself into the root of two of the threads inside the die. The result, of course, was a shabby thread with squashed crests.

    I made a pick out of a sewing needle (thanks, honey), put it in a pin vise and spent a half hour picking at the bad spots until I finally got the stuff out of there. Cut two more threads OK but on the third, the same thing happened. I'm flooding the work with the dark sulfur cutting oil that I've used successfully for over 25 years, so I have no idea why this is happening except that the shop genie is mad at me. (I think she is: a mouse ate through the canvas cover for my mill and crapped in it, and my top toolbox drawer latching mechanism won't work and I can't close and lock the box. There's more but I won't list it all here. It's been a bad day in the shop.)

    I could just as well have tossed the $30 into the dumpster. And furthermore, I can't get a 10-32 here in town, so I have to mail order, pay shipping, and put the project on hold. (And no, I can't single-point the thread in the lathe. The work needs to be test-fitted and then threaded further down the rod several times.)

    Anyway, does anyone know of a way to salvage this die? I really think it's a goner.

  • #2
    Use magnification and check for chipped thread. If you are lucky a dremal might be used to clean up the spot. A die does not have to cut on every thread tooth.

    Bob

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    • #3
      You might have to cut down the OD of the part you're threading-
      I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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      • #4
        I have found once you get something welded to a cutter it is all over with, It will just keep happening.

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        • #5
          You said it is Top Quality, American Made, but what material is it made from, ie. HSS or Carbon steel?

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          • #6
            Bob: The threads are good. The problem is a bit of metal pressure-welded down in the root of two of the threads.

            Luthor: It's HSS.

            Macona: I'm afraid you may be right. While I was able to get the chip out the first time, I wasn't able to get it completely clean. There was still some metal visible down in the root. It cut well-formed threads after that, but as I wrote in the original post, it did that only twice before jamming up again.

            Thanks folks.

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            • #7
              Could it be the rod you are using? Some metals don't take kindly to being tapped or machined. In fact I just ruined a very nice tap yesterday because I was trying to clean out a nut for a motor shaft and some little booger in the threads tore the tap all up.

              You could try running the die over some stainless to see if it will push the crap out of the die.

              Also like mentioned find the edge that is boogering the metal and just touch it with a dremmel to take the edge off.
              Andy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by vpt
                Could it be the rod you are using? Some metals don't take kindly to being tapped or machined. In fact I just ruined a very nice tap yesterday because I was trying to clean out a nut for a motor shaft and some little booger in the threads tore the tap all up.
                Yup. All I know is that the material is steel. Not hardened, obviously. I'll be making a trip to the metal yard today to get some 12L14 if they have it.

                Originally posted by vpt
                You could try running the die over some stainless to see if it will push the crap out of the die.
                Great idea. I'll try that.

                Originally posted by vpt
                Also like mentioned find the edge that is boogering the metal and just touch it with a dremmel to take the edge off.
                Can't get into the root of the die thread with a Dremel. The problem is not at the cutting edge, but down in the middle of the root of the die thread.

                Thanks for the tips.

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                • #9
                  just run a tap in the die.
                  How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by luthor
                    You said it is Top Quality, American Made, but what material is it made from, ie. HSS or Carbon steel?
                    What is the brand? American made dont mean it used quality steel or made to a high standard...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cuemaker
                      What is the brand? American made dont mean it used quality steel or made to a high standard...

                      American made generally means total CRAP.

                      But it would make no difference if it were HSS or carbon steel.... that's an old schoolyard tale.... both cut fine.... one lasts longer.
                      1601

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

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                      • #12
                        Black Forest: Tried that but one of the bad spots is in the tapered part of the die where the tap teeth won't reach. I suppose I could sacrifice a cheap tap and make some sort of pick out of it to get down in there, but I'm approaching the point of diminishing returns on my time.

                        Cuemaker: It's a Greenfield.

                        J Tiers: I respectfully disagree. I find that American made cutting tools almost always outperform imports.

                        I don't think the fault lies in the die. The steel I was threading is unknown material, albeit not drill rod, 4140, or anything hard. But I have run into "sticky" steel in the past and this may be some. I'm going to scrap out the rest of this material and get some 12L14. With luck, the local tool shop will have a die. None of the local hardware stores have the 32 tpi, just the 24.

                        Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gregl
                          J Tiers: I respectfully disagree. I find that American made cutting tools almost always outperform imports.
                          Depends on the import...... and I have had total trash dies in particular, all US made......

                          US companies are cutting corners on quality to try to compete on price, while the chinese are ratcheting UP quality at the same price as their old crap.....

                          Wanna bet who wins?
                          1601

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Greenfield no longer means automatically made in USA. It's owned by a Chinese company. Cutting cost is the first step to profits.

                            http://www.gfii.com/about.php

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J Tiers
                              Depends on the import...... and I have had total trash dies in particular, all US made......

                              US companies are cutting corners on quality to try to compete on price, while the chinese are ratcheting UP quality at the same price as their old crap.....

                              Wanna bet who wins?
                              J: You win.

                              Here's the end of the story. This morning I found a Hanson die at a local supplier. I've always been skeptical of the Hanson brand, but it was available. About seven bucks. Not encouraging. Drove 30 miles r.t. to get it. Get home and it mangles the crest of the thread at about half way into the die. Totally unacceptable. Nothing visible in the die under 10X magnification. And this time I'm using 360 brass as a test to eliminate any question about the material. (And it's not me, it's the die. I've been cutting threads for over 25 years so I'm not a noob.)

                              But I need the die and can't make progress without it, so I get back into the car and drive another 30 miles to swap it out for another. But while I'm down there, I decide to also check a different supplier a few miles farther on. Lo and behold, they have a Union Butterfield die for $25. I decide that since I've already invested 60 miles of travel, over an hour of my time and perhaps $15 in diesel fuel, that I'll bag the Union Butterfield too.

                              Get home and the replacement Hanson does the same thing. Try the Union Butterfield and I get a perfect, portrait-over-the-fireplace quality thread.

                              So now I've got this junk Hanson die that isn't worth returning, along with the $30 Greenfield that bit the big burrito and started this whole adventure. As for the Hanson, I think I'll call the outfit that sold it to me and tell them that they have a bad batch. Not that they'll do anything about it, but at least I tried.

                              Total cost of putting four threads on the ends of two pieces of 3/16 rod: a day and a half of my time, 60 miles of driving, and the total cost of dies plus fuel adding up to $73.35.

                              There's that old song lyric: Sometimes your the windshield and sometimes you're the bug.

                              Thanks y'all for your input.

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