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Sir John having a dust up ?

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  • #16
    Sir John, I suppose one could conclude that "'compatible with', 'fits' or 'for' " cannot be used except for parts that fit only that brand.

    For example, if you are selling spark plugs you cannot advertise them as 'for Ford Zephyr', but if you are making crankshafts you could. Daft..
    Last edited by The Artful Bodger; 09-11-2011, 05:31 PM.

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    • #17
      Couldn't simply the term "aftermarket" be applied here?
      I just need one more tool,just one!

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      • #18
        The listed parts were only for that brand, in the case of the Tumbler gears no other lathe fits them this size.
        They are made to a genuine Myford spec c/o the ex-Myford employee who used to cut the gears and now made with genuine Myford cutters as I bought a load of the tooling in the close down.
        .

        Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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        • #19
          Originally posted by tdmidget
          Aircraft parts may only be manufactured by the certificate holder and those who have been granted Parts Manufacturing Authority (PMA). Other, illegally made parts may be prosecuted by Boeing.

          Why do you Myford fans insist on rewarding E-bay? You can post Myford parts on PM but the RDG clones cannot.
          I'm not a Myford fan - don't know anything about them except what I read in the thread the OP posted.

          The point you make is another aspect of the Boeing problem but not related directly to the problem of claiming OEM built parts but which are not built by Boeing.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by tdmidget

            Why do you Myford fans insist on rewarding E-bay? You can post Myford parts on PM but the RDG clones cannot.
            long / short is that Ebay has a greater coverage than all the other sites.
            Ower Gert has her own web site but it attract half of what Ebay gets.

            Most Myfords are in the UK, just as most South Bends are in the US.

            PM is no good for a UK reader but we do have a very completely free and good advert site in the UK which is used a lot.

            http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk
            .

            Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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            • #21
              Originally posted by tdmidget
              Aircraft parts may only be manufactured by the certificate holder and those who have been granted Parts Manufacturing Authority (PMA). Other, illegally made parts may be prosecuted by Boeing.

              Why do you Myford fans insist on rewarding E-bay? You can post Myford parts on PM but the RDG clones cannot.
              I imagine you can make aftermarket Boeing parts all you want.... Just cannot fit them to a commercial aircraft for safety reasons...

              I am pretty sure if an aftermarket Myford part fails, it won't potentially kill 300+ people...
              Precision takes time.

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              • #22
                The law on this is very simple and clear everywhere. "Myford" is a trademark. It isn't copyrighted or patented, it is a registered trademark that the owner may use to identify their products. That is the key. It is used and may only be used to identify their products. However, that use of the trademark isn't limited just to the owner. Anyone may also use that trademark to identify the owner's products. They may not use it to identify any other product.

                When you offer something for sale and identify a product for which it may be used by using the correct trademark it makes no difference if that part also fits other products.

                When I worked for Xerox this was always a matter that the company took very seriously. We were very well informed on the precise wording that could be used on competitive toner supplies not made by Xerox. It is perfectly permissible to make toner that works in a variety of copiers and label the bottle "Toner for use in XEROX 3450 copier". That phrase identifies the Xerox product using the Xerox trademark, not the toner product.

                The possible problem here is that the ownership of the "Myford" trademark has changed hands. However, the new owner is not called Myford Limited. Because of that it is possible to use the name of the former company which is NOT the same as the current trademark to identify who actually made the part.

                In other words, Jim Marshall can sell used or NOS parts listed as "Made by Myford Limited to fit Myford lathe" and tell RDG to pound sand. The designation positively identifies the origin of the part and is entirely legal since it is true.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by .RC.
                  I imagine you can make aftermarket Boeing parts all you want.... Just cannot fit them to a commercial aircraft for safety reasons...

                  I am pretty sure if an aftermarket Myford part fails, it won't potentially kill 300+ people...
                  Just to clarify a few points that have come up on this thread about this. Yes anyone can manufacture a part that fits a Boeing for example, however they normally need to go through the same certification process and paper-trail both for that part and for the company itself. Clearly the part needs to comply with the relevant intellectual property restrictions that may apply, however that is of course the case with any commercially produced product. That is completely different to counterfeit parts, these are parts that, for one reason or another, their lineage doesn't correlate to the tag attached. Counterfeit aircraft parts are, by the way, an enormous market.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Evan


                    In other words, Jim Marshall can sell used or NOS parts listed as "Made by Myford Limited to fit Myford lathe" and tell RDG to pound sand. The designation positively identifies the origin of the part and is entirely legal since it is true.
                    The problem here Evan is the same one we had, although we were in the right RDG ? Myford had a VeRO into Ebay that pulled our listings.

                    It's one thing telling them to pound sand and another thing to get Ebay to listen.
                    We tried to contact RDG as instructed by the VeRO notice but they declined to reply.

                    Until someone can get to talk direct to Ebay nothing will change, in our case we have been told we can use the name and they will not issue any more VeRO's against us.

                    Why they chose to pick on us baffles me, we list a total of 8 items specify to Myfords, 4 types of gear[s] and 4 dividing plates. Out of all the listings for Myford there are plenty more sellers who are listing far more products.

                    It's ironic really because RDG have been for the last 5 years at least the main instigator in Indian made substandard copy parts for Myfords, it probably helped Myfords demise and now the boot is on the other foot they are poachers turned gamekeepers.

                    Listed under RDG Myford are loads of items that have nothing to do with Myford, 0-1" micrometer - suitable for Myford.
                    A whole range of items listed as suitable for Boxford or Colchester.
                    Rules for one, none for others, as you say those who have the cash / feedback make the rules.
                    .

                    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                    • #25
                      And what if you want to sell a chuck with a Myford thread to fit a dividing head with a Myford nose, a chuck that is not even suitable for a lathe - wouldn't stand up to the rpm, for example ?

                      You and your beetroot, and others in your situation, have my sympathy, John.
                      Richard - SW London, UK, EU.

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                      • #26
                        I cant believe a company like RDG (the new Myford) being so utterly stupid , using bully boy tactics to stop people doing legitimate trade. they must have known what a small community this is, and people talk, because of their (RDGs) attitude many of their customers will walk, [there's a lot of talk of boycott on various forums] particularly as most of their stuff is identical to other suppliers.

                        For years RGD have supplied cheap Indian myford knockoff components (that probably helped the demise of Myford ) & boxford & colchester bits.

                        As Evan says, what RGD are doing is is probably illegal under anti monopoly laws.

                        They should have looked at the long term outcome of their actions as this has alienated so many people I think they will lose a fair % of their customer base, & the only way to get them back will be lower prices (cos people are fickle) but that = lower profit - not a good business model
                        RGD must be mad.
                        John

                        I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure , but I'm not a complete idiot - some bits are still missing

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                        • #27
                          Sounds like RDG have surrounded themselves in a bit of a stink.

                          I had already ceased dealing with them before all this blew up over an issue with one of their steadies which they claimed "fits a Colchester Bantam"
                          Ironic in many ways:-
                          Believe me , as supplied it did not fit , and they responded in a blunt manner to my representations.
                          It had what I considered to be a badly engineered bodge but I fixed it and made it fit.

                          Ironic also because they have clearly for many years been doing what they are now trying to stop others doing.

                          Maybe they have beaten the value of the Myford company down to the point where they could afford to snaffle it, but that does not mean that we should support them.

                          Unfortunately a high ebay status does give them power in the market place.
                          I have heard many other firms complain that they have to be present on Ebay.
                          Maybe the Status of ebay is one which the competition commissioners should be looking more closely at.

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                          • #28
                            Maybe the Status of ebay is one which the competition commissioners should be looking more closely at.
                            That's a very good point. Our laws in this respect are taken mainly from British law and are similar. E-Bay might be guilty of anti competitive practises for favouring one seller over another without a legal reason.
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                            • #29
                              My last order with RDG was over $800, Screw them. This totally illegal action could and just maybe will see the end of RDG as a business. Somebody at RDG is gonna have some "splainin" to do to the head guy, Or if it was the head guy he's gonna have some splainin to do to all the employees on the last day of business. As Evan said, "Those with the money make the rules".

                              Pete

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by john11668
                                Unfortunately a high ebay status does give them power in the market place.
                                I have heard many other firms complain that they have to be present on Ebay.
                                Maybe the Status of ebay is one which the competition commissioners should be looking more closely at.
                                To me its ebay's actions and inactions that are most on the nose here. Presumably a fairly junior person in ebay has acquiessed to RDG/Myford's veto request either without thinking it through properly or without being game to say no to RDG/M.

                                Once junior has made that poor decision there is no way for those adversely affected to contact someone further up the line in ebay to have junior's decision quickly reversed. Sir John alluded to an OFT inquiry, hopefully OFT will look at this aspect of ebay when they investigate.

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