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shaper tooling and tool holders

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  • shaper tooling and tool holders

    Quick question to you shapely folks --
    is there anything wrong with using the clapper as the tool holder
    itself? instead of putting a toolholder in the clapper and then putting
    a ground bit in that tool holder?

    I understand there's probably a convenience factor to using a
    toolholder.. and not all tools will work directly in the clapper.. but
    I don't have any toolholders.

    I'm just squeezing HSS blanks (5/8" x 5/8" x 8" long) into the clapper
    toolpost / holder.

    Thanks
    Tony

  • #2
    Some years back Rudy K ran an article in either HSM or MW on exactly this topic. He argued, and demonstrated, that a tool mounted directly in a modified clapper block, gave a superior finish. It does not solve ALL problems, but, for smooth finished surfaces, it sure put a fly cutter to shame. I cant remember the exact copy, but I am sure that SOMEONE here will
    Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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    • #3
      Tool holders are for those times when you can't put the cutter directly in the clapper post.

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      • #4
        I use 3/8 Sq. HSS bits directly in the Clapperbox post all the time. Works great for me in my South Bend 7.

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        • #5
          Tony, the only comment I can make is put something between the tool and the face of the clapper to avoid the sharp, hard edges of the tool marking the clapper.

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          • #6
            In the machinist trade as in all othrs what works, works. There a few rules like safety, productivity, not damaging the equipment, etc. If directly mounting the tools in the clapper box works OK why would you mess with a tool holder? That makes is toolholder are like underwear.

            Is this a good time to post a achallenge question about shapers? Is there an advange to mounting the cutting edge ahead of, in line, or behind the clapper box? Why?
            Last edited by Forrest Addy; 09-12-2011, 04:47 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Forrest Addy
              That makes is toolholder are like underwear.

              Is this a good time to post a achallenge question about shapers? Is there an advange to mounting the cutting edge ahead of, in line, or behind the clapper box? Why?
              Thanks for the chuckle Forrest. To answer your question, I would suspect that the geometry of the tool bit itself would have significantly more impact than the location of the cutting edge, so my answer is probably little advantage, but I eagerly anticipate your answer regarding this.

              To answer the OP's question, the only time I use a toolholder is when I need some "reach." Otherwise the tool bit sits directly in the tool post on the clapper. I was always taught that rigidity is the key to everything. Eliminating the toolholder may not give much benefit, but every little bit counts in many situations.
              Last edited by justanengineer; 09-12-2011, 05:00 PM.
              "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Forrest Addy
                Is this a good time to post a achallenge question about shapers? Is there an advange to mounting the cutting edge ahead of, in line, or behind the clapper box? Why?
                Oh my - that is dragging out some old battle scars for review. Well, here goes. Putting the cutting edge at the clapper hinge will prevent the cutter from digging in to the work during the cut and prevent digging in during the return stroke. Farther forward it can bit into the work like a lathe cutter that is too high. Farther back and it can jam the work on return. Evan has a picture of an Armstrong style holder in this configuration.

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                • #9
                  I use one similar to the one Art Volz posted on the Yahoo metal shaper group years ago. If you don't belong you can join and browse the files. It works fine for me on an 8" Logan. You can set the tool ahead or turn the holder around and set it closer to the clapper hinge pin. I normally set it to run under the hinge pin and get excellent surfaces. Key is to grind your bits to approximately a 45 degree angle to slice and curl the material off and away from the part. I also use a broad rounded bit for finishing and it works wonderfully.
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b15vyyzQwsM
                  there are a few other videos



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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dp
                    Tool holders are for those times when you can't put the cutter directly in the clapper post.
                    I certainly agree with this. It seems that the toolholder with small bit was developed because the good tool steels were too expensive to make the entire tool from. Sorta like the brazed and inserted carbide tools are now. I have used tool bits directly in a lantern tool post and find that to be very satisfactory. I use the "Armstrong" holders when needed to reach the work area.
                    Don Young

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