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  • Morse Taper?

    I want to turn a Morse Taper 6 on my lathe.

    The gauge dimension is: 63.348
    The taper is: 19.180:1

    I will use the compound set over to ???

    The chart I found for the dimensions:

    Morse Taper dimensions (mm) Morse Taper number Taper A B (max) C (max) D (max) E (max) F G H J K
    0 19.212:1 9.045 56.5 59.5 10.5 6 4 1 3 3.9 1° 29' 27"
    1 20.047:1 12.065 62 65.5 13.5 8.7 5 1.2 3.5 5.2 1° 25' 43"
    2 20.020:1 17.780 75 80 16 13.5 6 1.6 5 6.3 1° 25' 50"
    3 19.922:1 23.825 94 99 20 18.5 7 2 5 7.9 1° 26' 16"
    4 19.254:1 31.267 117.5 124 24 24.5 8 2.5 6.5 11.9 1° 29' 15"
    5 19.002:1 44.399 149.5 156 29 35.7 10 3 6.5 15.9 1° 30' 26"
    6 19.180:1 63.348 210 218 40 51 13 4 8 19 1° 29' 36"
    7 19.231:1 83.058 285.75 294.1 34.9
    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Black Forest
    ................................

    I will use the compound set over to ??? ....................................
    No takers yet so let me try. I believe tapers are determined by the offset per inch. If you had a 6" length of stock your setting would be different then if you had a 12" piece of stock. In other words I believe it's variable by the length of stock you chuck up to work on. Trial and error may be your best friend here. Just trying to help but I may be wrong. I would mark off a 1" section of stock and measure each end of the 1" section till I got the correct reading. The length of your raw stock effects the set over.

    I expect someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. Hell, on this board, I expect someone will come along and correct me if I'm right
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    • #3
      One handy way to set the compound is to use an existing Morse taper item. I've got a chuck adapter, I think, that has centers in both ends. I set it up between centers and use an indicator in the toolholder to just adjust the compound until it's parallel to the taper section. No calculations needed. When I've turned my part I use a #2 to #3 sleeve as a gauge to check the contact and see if it needs tweaking.
      .
      "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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      • #4
        To do this with a compound, it would have to be "offset" from perpendicular either 88° 30' 24" or 89° 15' 12" depending on whether the angle indicated is the included angle or not. Can't help more, I'm 1400 km away from my Machinery's handbook.
        Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

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        • #5
          You cannot expect to set the correct taper the first time, even with a taper attachment.

          With the compound, it is even less likely. You will have to either set up to a "model" piece using an indicator to check alignment, OR use a sacrificial part to do trial and error after making the best dial setting you can (which won't be very good).

          Also, check the MT6 standard total length against the compound travel you have available. If you have at least 60 or 70% of the length available as compound travel, you may not have to do the taper in two sections. I can do about 80% of an MT3, and usually leave the rest as an undersized cylinder at the thin end. The thin end does not add much "grip" to the taper, nor alignment, either.

          if you need to do the taper in two sections, resetting between, that is a big nuisance, but it is do-able.

          As far as setting... if you have a model taper, some piece of tooling with the same taper, put it between centers and set the angle to it. be certain to get the tool on-center or the taper will be a curve.

          if you are making headstock tooling for a lathe, or your lathe has the same spindle taper, you can use the existing spindle taper as a model.

          You will use an indicator, moving the compound with indicator in contact with the "model", and adjusting until there is no change in the dial indication over the entire range of movement.

          if you must use a sacrificial test piece, you will need a model taper or a gage.... and you will need to "blue up" the model and adjust based on the pattern of "blue" on your test piece. Actually, you can wait on the "blue", first get to where it doesn't rattle, THEN you can start with the blue.....
          Last edited by J Tiers; 09-15-2011, 09:37 AM.
          1601

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

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          • #6
            I don't have a MT6 piece of tooling. I want to turn a center for the headstock of my lathe which is a MT6.

            I have MT1 to MT5 and a MT7 but no MT6.

            I have 6 inches of travel on my compound so it will be enough in one setup.
            How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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            • #7
              I think the answer is already to be found in your original post ... 1° 29' 36"

              When you get close to size check your workpiece against a female #6 for conformity. The best way to do this is with some hispot bluing grease. If you do not have any paint the male part with either Dykem or a magic marker and rub the two pieces together. If you are using the grease the end which shows blue is high and the taper setting will need to be adjusted till the entire length shows some blue on the surface. If you are using Dykem or in you would look for the shiny spots as the high side.

              To set the compound as accurately as possible before you start:

              1) first set the protractor base as closely as you can by eye,

              2) then put a test indicator in the toolholder and zero it against your workpiece and zero your crossfeed dial or DRO as well

              3) then back off on the crossfeed a distance equal to the sine of the angle you want to cut (remember to divide by two if your lathe takes off .001 for .001 crossfeed movement).

              4) now advance the compound exactly one inch. For greater accuracy make it a two inch or three inch movement and double or triple your sine if your compound throw will allow.

              Your indicator should read zero when it touches the workpiece again after moving the compound one inch (using the sine of the angle times 1). If it doesn't adjust the compound till it does. It would still be wise to check against the Dykem or Hi Spot grease for your final cuts.

              EDIT: Whoops; Just occurred to me that this would be for an internal taper. Touch the indicator first and set to zero and then after moving the compound (it will be inclining toward you for a male taper) move the crossfeed to zero.
              Last edited by DATo; 09-15-2011, 10:01 AM.

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              • #8
                DATo the only thing I have to check the taper is the taper in the headstock.

                I would think chucking and unchucking to check would not be a good thing!
                How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                • #9
                  If you wish to turn a taper to the bore of your headstock, you can use an indicator on the headstock bore directly to set the compound angle just as you would do if using an MT adaptor.

                  You will still need to use high spot or chalk to fine tune the setup when finish machining.
                  Jim H.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Black Forest
                    I don't have a MT6 piece of tooling. I want to turn a center for the headstock of my lathe which is a MT6.
                    If you're turning a fitting for your headstock, you could use a "finger style" indicator set on vertical center against the far side of the tapered bore to indicat the compound setting. Just adjust, test, repeat to zero variation on the indicator (or you're satisfied) and lock down the compound. Then install the work holding device and work and proceed. Most convenient would be a large bore 4 jaw chuck that would allow access to the bore with the jaws open. It would mean removing the work, testing with dye or markem or what ever, then replacing the work, indicating in, adjusting and then cutting. A lot of work, but it should be possible.
                    Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

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                    • #11
                      And borrow a female 6 taper to do the testing. Surely someone has a 6 to 7 adaptor. :-)
                      ...lew...

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                      • #12
                        Sounds like a lot of trouble so I just bought a MK6 center on Ebay!

                        Thanks for the help. I just didn't think it would be a good idea to not have a perfect center for the headstock if I want to turn between centers.
                        How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Black Forest
                          Sounds like a lot of trouble so I just bought a MK6 center on Ebay!

                          Thanks for the help. I just didn't think it would be a good idea to not have a perfect center for the headstock if I want to turn between centers.
                          For the perfect center put some scrapbinium in chuck & turn a point, no chance of being off center, use chuck jaws to drive dog, simples
                          Last edited by jugs; 09-15-2011, 10:49 AM.
                          John

                          I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure , but I'm not a complete idiot - some bits are still missing

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                          • #14
                            A standard MT#6 taper center will possibly be too long for using a dog plate anyway. Original centers supplied for turning between centers were furnished soft so that they could be trued after installation. Tailstock centers were hardened against wear.

                            For turning between centers, the simplest and most accurate means is to use a shouldered spud with a 60* point held in the lathe chuck. It can be trued each time it is set up. A chuck jaw is used to drive the dog.
                            Jim H.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Your Old Dog
                              I expect someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. Hell, on this board, I expect someone will come along and correct me if I'm right
                              Just so you can be right this time,

                              you are wrong!!


                              is that all right
                              John

                              I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure , but I'm not a complete idiot - some bits are still missing

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