Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

One for the knife makers - handle riveting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • One for the knife makers - handle riveting

    In the everlasting task of pursuing domestic harmony, I have another task that will keep me on the straight and narrow and help justify the investment in my shop.

    We have a number of kitchen knives on which the handles appear to have been riveted with some form of Aluminum alloy.
    After frequent cleaning in the dishwasher, the rivets are being "eaten away" and the handles are getting loose.

    I would like to replace these with brass rivets, which should be "dishwasher proof".
    Is there any particular grade of brass I should be looking for? Any hints or tips on setting the rivets?

    I did do quite a bit of riveting with aluminum when I was an apprentice some 30 years ago, but I haven't done any since.

    Thanks

    Stuart

  • #2
    I just use regular 360 alloy brass(which seems to be he main alloy available).

    You should never wash them in hot water at all.
    it takes the edges off .

    Comment


    • #3
      Cutler's rivets come in different lengths, but the heads are all the same diameter. I made my counterbore from a wood screw set thingy drill (sorry for the technical talk, sometimes I just can't help myself) I got my rivets from Indian Ridge Traders which was bought out by Koval Knives which was purchased by Jantz Supply. Leave enough room in the hole for the rivet to swell and not split the handle material, and pick the rivet closest to the finished length and all should be well.
      I'm here hoping to advancify my smartitude.

      Comment


      • #4
        Lee valley is were I get mine they had a number of lengths etc. leevalley You might try woodcraft since they sell the stepped rivet drill for their knife kits.
        Glen
        Been there, probably broke it, doing that!
        I am not a lawyer, and never played one on TV!
        All the usual and standard disclaimers apply. Do not try this at home, use only as directed, No warranties express or implied, for the intended use or the suggested uses, Wear safety glasses, closed course, professionals only

        Comment


        • #5
          Not to take this OT, but you really shouldn't be putting knives in the dish washer. It's hell on the handles and the edges take a beating too.

          Comment


          • #6
            try telling that to my wife

            Comment


            • #7
              My cheap stainless knives go in the washer, but all my high carbon get washed by hand and dried by hand, and get a quick swipe on a scythe stone before each use.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by duckman
                My cheap stainless knives go in the washer, but all my high carbon get washed by hand and dried by hand, and get a quick swipe on a scythe stone before each use.
                My good knives are all hand washed, and then get a few quick swipes on the edge of the sink. Seems to work, only had to sharpen a couple of them for several years.

                Comment


                • #9
                  how about breaking them down and putting some epoxy in to bond the
                  handles to the blank? that way the rivets are just for looks.

                  i've never had luck with rivets.. either 1) split the wood 2) aren't tight enough
                  and loosen as the wood moves or 3) i suck at rivet.

                  -Tony

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gwilson
                    You should never wash them in hot water at all.
                    it takes the edges off .
                    I've never heard of that. Are we talking hot water in a dishwasher? Or even washing by hand in the sink under hot water?

                    I claim no particular expertise here, but this sounds a little suspect to me.
                    Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi,

                      Washing in a dishwasher is tough on blades and edges and particularly handles. Getting bounced around dings up the edges. And abrasive detergents also get blasted against the blades rounding the cutting edge. It's better to wash your knives by hand to prevent that. But by all means use hot water even for plain high carbon steel blades. Just wipe dry when done washing them and put them away properly. That won't harm your edges at all. A stainless steel blade can even be left to air dry with no damage.

                      A blade can be resharpened and edges repaired easily. So dulling is a mere inconvenience. But damage the handles and the knife can be useless. While plastics of one kind or another are most common on kitchen knives these days and are pretty impervious to most kitchen usage. Things still happen like rivets loosening and materials splitting from exposure to harsh environments like dishwashers.

                      As nice looking as exposed full tang knives are, I prefer over-molded plastic handles for kitchen use. They have no rivets to loosen and are easier to keep clean.

                      dalee
                      If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Getting into hot water

                        Originally posted by lynnl
                        I've never heard of that. Are we talking hot water in a dishwasher? Or even washing by hand in the sink under hot water?

                        I claim no particular expertise here, but this sounds a little suspect to me.
                        If you imagine the cutting edge of a very sharp knife is a thin but rather uniform strip of metal, attached to a thicker piece (the rest of the blade). When you heat the whole blade (in very hot water, for example), the thin bit heats and expands differently from the thicker bit, so you get microscopic uneven bending and curling, which tends to undo your hard work of honing the blade down to a thin, even line.

                        I just gently wipe my good kitchen knives with a sponge dipped in warm, but never hot, water and detergent. One rub of the steel (force of habit) and they go back in the block, ready to be taken out sharp next time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe something on this website will work:
                          http://www.rivetsonline.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Washing knives in hot water is indeed harmful to your edges. I was accused of B.S. years ago on the PM site,before a retired butcher came along and backed me up on it. That extremely thin little cutting edge will be hurt by hot water.

                            I'll tell you something else to not believe: It is bad to leave sharp files laying in direct sunlight.

                            Lots of differing opinions on this,but old timer butchers generally agree about not washing with hot water.
                            Last edited by gwilson; 10-07-2011, 04:44 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Euph0ny
                              If you imagine the cutting edge of a very sharp knife is a thin but rather uniform strip of metal, attached to a thicker piece (the rest of the blade). When you heat the whole blade (in very hot water, for example), the thin bit heats and expands differently from the thicker bit, so you get microscopic uneven bending and curling, which tends to undo your hard work of honing the blade down to a thin, even line.
                              Firstly, considering the length of time it's in the water for washing, speaking of hand washing, and the temperature involved, maybe 180d F, I doubt there's enough differential in the heating/expansion to have much effect.

                              Plus, I certainly doubt that the distortion goes past the elasticity limit of the steel in question. So it will return to its normal state very quickly.

                              And finally, I think the distortion forces are very small, relative to the forces the edge must endure in use cutting tough meat, or other hard material, especially bone or gristle.

                              For the purpose of argument, the theory perhaps contains an element of validity. But from a practical sense, I don't think washing in hot water makes a bit of difference.

                              I remain a non-believer.

                              Now throwing it in the dishwasher, to clank around with other hard objects - that's a different story.

                              (added) Now I will concede that just the simple act of washing, on a microscopic level, can, or probably does, have some eroding effect on the edge, just by the mechanical actions, e.g. rubbing the washing pad/sponge/cloth/etc. against the edge. Perhaps even the force of water droplets, if we look down to the atomic and molecular level.

                              But again, compared to normal useage, that would be insignificant.
                              Ooops, one more caveat: In a commercial setting, where water temperature may be substantial hotter, the person washing the knife may experience such discomfort as to force him/her to drop the knife on the hard surface, thereby dulling it.
                              Last edited by lynnl; 10-08-2011, 12:53 PM.
                              Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X