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One for the knife makers - handle riveting

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  • #16
    1st. What kind of dishwashers do you people have that bounce around the forks,and dishes. Granted we don't have any kind but most have racks and baskets. That hold the pots etc. while rotating wands have water with the liquid soap solution coming out? Granted the newer models also use steam in one cycle.

    2nd. The handle rivets used are not ordinary hammer over type but this style if inside a tube then spreads the head in a receiver tube rivet.
    Like these brass rivets
    Glen
    Been there, probably broke it, doing that!
    I am not a lawyer, and never played one on TV!
    All the usual and standard disclaimers apply. Do not try this at home, use only as directed, No warranties express or implied, for the intended use or the suggested uses, Wear safety glasses, closed course, professionals only

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    • #17
      It could be that the dishwashing detergent has silica in it (or another fine abrasive.) Why I say that is because some time ago I had a leak under the sink which was eventually traced to the elbow that exited the disposal and it was worn paper thin and had a fine split in it. We don't put sand in the sink, and I doubt grinding normal food waste (no bones) is abrasive. Could there also be a chemical reaction going on too? Chlorine as a disinfectant?
      gvasale

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      • #18
        Wow! Next time my wife tells me I'm too picky, I'll have to show her this thread. At my house, everything goes in the dishwasher. If a knife doesn't cut well, it gets sharpened. More things to do than ponder how my dishwasher is affecting the atomic structure of my knives (like hanging around on forums )

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        • #19
          Chlorine is pretty caustic. I could eat out a elbow or P-Trap. I have seen some very thin ones when working on plumbing. Could be just natural corrosion, any oxide that builds up would be washed away by the water in that area.

          Anyone with access to a SEM? Wash a bunch of razor blades in hot and cold water and see if there is a difference.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by gwilson
            You should never wash them in hot water at all.
            it takes the edges off .
            I just ran out to the kitchen and washed all my wives knives in ice cold water but they still won't cut. What did I do wrong?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by gwilson
              .......................................
              You should never wash them in hot water at all.
              it takes the edges off .
              I can't believe as many post went by before you were challenged on this one

              Reminds me of a very early post I made years ago wherein I mentioned to the group that engravers frequently "pre-wear" the cutting surface of chisels with 4/0 jewelers sand paper to prevent the tips from snapping. Sir John, Earl of Sudspupwater had a ball with that one. It's true but what the hell did it matter! I've heard it said that fact is stranger then fiction sometimes.

              Because of that response I don't think I ever mentioned that some engravers also believe that chisels get tired and need rested to get the best out of them. Or, now that I think of it, that some whittlers in the Ozarks believe in burying their carbon steel blades in the backyard until they get a bit of rust on them before putting them to serious use.

              EDITED FOR CORRECTIVE MEASURES: I have received a flood of emails......alright, that's a lie. I received an email stating that it wasn't Sir John who belittled and disgraced my reputation, defamed my character and in general made life a living hell for me My rusty memory is telling me it was: ________________________
              Last edited by Your Old Dog; 10-09-2011, 12:15 PM.
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              Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.

              It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.

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              • #22
                This is one of those things that everyone must do according to their beliefs. Opinions on both sides of the aisle,which I knew was going to result.

                You must consider that the cutting edge,if sharp,is a very,very thin and acute surface. Can you be certain what really can happen to it? I just,based upon advice from old,long time users,wash my knives with soap and cool water,and dry them at once. This does pertain to carbon steel,BTW.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by gwilson
                  I'll tell you something else to not believe: It is bad to leave sharp files laying in direct sunlight.
                  Ok George, what's the story behind this one?

                  Man! You can't just toss these notions out here for our consumption without some entertaining and corroborating anecdotes to support them! That's not sporting!

                  But since we're in the realm of the "hard to believe," I'll toss out one that I haven't in a few years.
                  If you heat a pan of water (sturdy, substantial pan, e.g. cast iron) to a good rolling boil on the stove, you can then comfortably hold it in the palm of your hand, while it's still boiling.
                  (Caution! Be careful that it's not too full, so that the hot water doesn't splash over onto your hand or wrist.)

                  The reason being of course, that while the water is boiling, the whole system (pan + water) is in equilibrium, i.e. the escaping steam is taking away all of the heat from the pan bottom.
                  Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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                  • #24
                    It is based upon advice from experienced butchers and other knife users. I don't so easily dismiss the advice of those with many years of experience. My work has benefitted much from such advice. That's all I can tell you.

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                    • #25
                      No, I was referring to the "file in direct sunlight" issue.

                      Actually that one's a little easier for me to accept as a germ of truth. When you consider what any sharp edge looks like under high magnification: not one continuous keen edge, but rather a series of peaks and valleys, somewhat like a picket fence.

                      I can accept that over time some of those most prominent points (maybe molecules) will erode/deteriorate, and that intense, uninterrupted sunlight could tend to hasten that process.

                      But again, compared to the normal wear and edge deterioration from useage, I have doubts that the average file owner could ever detect a difference.

                      I assure you my intent here is NOT to take you or anyone else to task for offering these statements. It's just that I personally question the accuracy of some (not all) of these ideas.

                      Lots of good examples of this kind of folk wisdom is stuff like is found in the Farmers' Almanac, e.g. regarding planting and phases of the moon. On the surface some of it sounds like pure superstition, but over the long haul, when emperically it works out as advertised, it has to be accepted despite lack of any logical, physical explanation.

                      When I was in meteorology school (San Jose State), two of the professors were old navy men. They explained how many of the old folk weather predictors were very valid, when viewed in terms of modern knowledge of weather systems and parameters.

                      For example, the old saying "Red skies at night - sailors' delight; red skies in the morning - sailors take warning."
                      Well as it turns out, evening red skies are due to atmospheric conditions associated with subsidence at the levels for high clouds (cirrus) which implies a large high pressure (i.e. good weather) farther to the west. But morning red skies are a reflection of increasing mid level clouds, due to a warm front moving north, east of the sailor's position. And the warm front itself is a harbinger of a cyclone (low pressure/storm) likely to be moving in from the west later.
                      Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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                      • #26
                        Things like knives in hot water and Sunlight on files always stirs up controversy. I expect it to. I just keep my files out of hot Sun,and wash carbon knives in cold water.
                        Last edited by gwilson; 10-08-2011, 05:14 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Your Old Dog
                          I don't think I ever mentioned that some engravers also believe that chisels get tired and need rested to get the best out of them.
                          There are more Old Wives' Tales in knifemaking than any other hobby I've endeavored.

                          Some Old School straight razor aficionados swear that a razor's edge needs a day to rest, and have odd and even day straight razors.

                          Some other ones:
                          "never quench a blade in a ferrous tank"
                          "the quench tank should be facing north, to align the magnetic field" ...

                          So bladesmiths often joke about aligning their anvil. Blacksmithing Feng Shui

                          Stuart: in addition to Corby/Cutler's bolts, you can also make stainless steel rivets out of Tig rod, or a tube rivet out of stainless tubing available at any knife supply, including Jantz. But if you're insistent on putting the knives in the dishwasher, should should probably be using micarta or G10 scales, and of course stainless blade steel: S30V, AEB-L/13C26, 440C... and that's quite a bit more involved to heat treat yourself. In the 'States, Texas Knife Supply, Peter's Heat Treat et al will heat treat stainless for you for around $8/blade including cryo, don't know what's available on your side of the pond.

                          If you're not aware, there's an outstanding, low bullsh!t knife forum in the UK: BritishBlades. Many famous US mastersmiths hang out there: Howard Clark, Kevin Cashen, ...

                          http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forum.php?
                          Last edited by lazlo; 10-08-2011, 05:59 PM.
                          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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                          • #28
                            So hot water ruins a sharp edge, now, is that an absolute, indisputable, proven fact, or just another old wives tale ?

                            OK, how many here still use a razor every morning, so what do you wash the razor in every day to clean it. This one multi-bladed, very small item is used for how long, say anywhere from 14 days to 28 days before your whiskers blunten the edges on these small items.

                            Now who in the heck, is still going to say washing a knife in hot water, stuffs up the edge ?

                            C'mon fellas, isn't this lot just a bit on the 'anal' side of things ?

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                            • #29
                              Razors are stainless steel. Stainless steel was the steel that enabled doctors to sterilize their instruments. A great advance. Carbon steel would dull in the autoclave.

                              Besides,I don't rinse my razor in hot water anyway.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by j.bain87
                                ....is used for how long, say anywhere from 14 days to 28 days before your whiskers blunten the edges on these small items.
                                I've never kept a record, but I probably use the same razor (blade) for 3 or 4 months! ...maybe as long as 6 months. (I use Schick disposables.)

                                Granted, it is beginning to drag and pull, before I finally toss it. But I get so many nicks and cuts with a new blade, that I postpone changing as long as possible. But I find the optimum razor performance is at about the 3 or 4 week point.
                                Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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