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  • OT- Smart Meters and Exposure

    I know there was a thread regarding this a while back. My take on the end of the thread was, if you don't have one of the "collector" meters, meaning the one that transmits the entire areas info, you were fairly safe.

    Well we (my wife mostly) have come across some other info that makes even a single meter scary. Since I am not an electrical guru by any means, I trust the opinion of those on this forum that are much more learned in this stuff. I am listing a few links for revue. I would really appreciate some input.

    http://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/

    http://ndttesting.net/rf-radiation-p...-smart-meters/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRejD...layer_embedded

    http://www.youaretheanswer.ca/radiat...s/smartmeters/

    We are contacting our power company and asking if we can have the meter relocated away from our house. I see no reason it HAS to be attached to the dwelling, why not on the service pole?

  • #2
    First link is interesting, though I cant see how a crib would ever be 11" away from a meter.

    The last 3 links are garbage.

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    • #3
      im not for smart meters but ...same guy says its killing his shrubs ..

      move through the video ..and you can see its white fly doing it

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsuP_...eature=related

      that meter of his is enough to scare anyone ****less ..

      all the best.markj
      Last edited by aboard_epsilon; 10-11-2011, 01:05 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by macona
        First link is interesting, though I can't see how a crib would ever be 11" away
        from a meter.
        From the report in the first link
        Assessment of Radiofrequency Microwave Radiation Emissions
        from Smart Meters

        Sage Associates January 1, 2011

        "RF levels have been calculated at distances of 11” (to represent a
        nursery or bedroom with a crib or bed against a wall opposite one or
        more meters); and at 28” (to represent a kitchen work space with one
        or more meters installed on the kitchen wall)."

        The YouTube video in the third link displays a meter mounted outside a
        residential bedroom. Beginning at 1:46, the video shows high readings
        being taken within the room.

        Originally posted by macona
        The last 3 links are garbage.
        On what grounds?

        .

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        • #5
          Originally posted by aboard_epsilon
          that meter of his is enough to scare anyone
          It is one of Gigahertz Solutions' HF 35C series of high frequency analyzers
          fitted with an optional ultra broad band (UBB) antenna.

          The woman in the previous video is using a Gigahertz HF analyzer, too.

          .
          Last edited by EddyCurr; 10-11-2011, 01:53 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by macona
            First link is interesting, though I cant see how a crib would ever be 11" away from a meter.

            The last 3 links are garbage.
            Easily, typical houses are built with either 2x4 or since energy crunch days most often 2x6 walls, 1/2" drywall inside, 1/2 inch sheathing, then 1/2 inch for siding, gives you 5 inch for a 2x5 wall, and 7 inches for a 2x6, (1.5x3.5 and 1.5 x 5.5 actual) Most meter boxes are 3 inches thick.

            Interesting side note, many houses built in the early 80s to early 90s, had from inside to out, 1/2" inch drywall, 2x6 studs with fiberglass insulation, 1/2 or 1 inch foam insulation board, then vinyl siding. Which means that nearly any house built during that period can be entered through a side wall with a utility knife, or at most a couple well placed kicks. (starting in the late 80s it became more common to sheath the entire ground floor at least with 1/2 inch OSB.) Part of the reason I like my old balloon construction house with actual dimension lumber

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            • #7
              "On what grounds?"


              On the grounds of extreme nonsense represented as science.

              Keep in mind that if you think something will make you sick then it most certainly will. Your symptoms may be very real too although the source is your own mind. It's the reverse of the "placebo effect" which is well known to be a powerful confounding factor when studying the efficacy of drugs.

              There are reasons to be concerned about devices that emit radiation in the 1 to 3 ghz range but they aren't as described on the huge number of "smart meters are cooking my brain" web sites.

              There are some indications of subtle effects that have nothing to do with thermal radiation. The signal from a smart meter or cell phone isn't powerful enough to cause thermal effects regardless of how close it is to your body.

              A recent high quality prospective study covering a period of 13 years has shown a strong and direct correlation between maternal exposure while pregnant to electromagnetic fields and the incidence of asthma in the children of those mothers. The effect is very large with the highest level of exposure correlated with a 300% increase of the incidence of asthma compared to the lowest levels of household exposure.

              That study did not measure smart meters but rather the low frequency fields generated by devices such as blender motors.

              There are valid questions that deserve further study. Health Canada just took the the step of recommending that children be limited from exposure to EMF including cell phones in particular. Health Canada is very conservative and their decisions are based on science, not hysteria.
              Last edited by Evan; 10-11-2011, 02:18 PM.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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              • #8
                Originally posted by kendall
                Easily, typical houses are built with either 2x4 or since energy crunch days most often 2x6 walls, 1/2" drywall inside, 1/2 inch sheathing, then 1/2 inch for siding, gives you 5 inch for a 2x5 wall, and 7 inches for a 2x6, (1.5x3.5 and 1.5 x 5.5 actual) Most meter boxes are 3 inches thick.
                Meter base, which is steel, plus a layer of siding under that, then sheeting, insulation, and then a layer of sheet rock. Anyone that has a wi-fi network in their home will tell you how much a single wall can attenuate a signal. There is nothing in the paper to compensate for even average construction.

                Plus a meter base us usually about 5-6' above grade. How many cribs have their deck at that height?

                There are quite a few absurd assumptions in that paper. Like people manually reading the meter having their eyes "mere inches" from the antenna. Guess those people are very near sighted and forgot their glasses!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rws
                  I know there was a thread regarding this a while back.
                  This one?

                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cell phones are only 0 inches from your head.

                    There is RF radiation everywhere. Switching power supplies are in everything because they are more efficient. Do they radiate RF radiation? Yes they do. But so does a standard light switch when you turn it on or off. So do motors with brushes. So do dishwashers, radio receivers, TVs, and almost anything electronic or electrical. You are continuously bathed in RF radiation and can't get away from it. Smart meters are only a small drop in a big bucket. It is our modern world and you can't escape it.

                    Overall we are probably a lot better off with all these RF emitting devices. And if you spend a day at the beach without sun blocker you will get thousands of times more damaging radiation than you will get from a smart meter outside your house in a year.
                    Paul A.
                    SE Texas

                    Make it fit.
                    You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

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                    • #11
                      I hate smart meters because of the implication that one day they'll save energy by controlling your behaviour. The new meters have a home area network designed to control your household appliances (Zigbee at around 2.4ghz). I expect at some point you won't have a choice as to whether or not the power company decides how and when you'll utilize "their" electricity. They have the capability to, so why wouldn't they in the name of "saving the planet"? Beyond that, I believe they are safe in regards to health hazards. My work involves rf sources, and I've been bombarded by more intense rf fields than that for many years. The rf output power of smart meters is equivalent to that of cordless phones, baby monitors, and other 900 mhz devices as regulated by the FCC, .5 to 1watt, depending on configuration. They just installed a smart meter on my house, and now I'm dealing with interference on my baby monitor. The power company states that the meters only report every four hours, but actually they relay the reporting from other houses in the network, so mine's going every 30 seconds or so. I've watched it on my spectrum analyzer. It pops and clicks on my baby monitor because they use frequency hopping that constantly moves across the spectrum. Big brother is here!

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                      • #12

                        "And if you spend a day at the beach without sun blocker you will get thousands of times more damaging radiation than you will get from a smart meter outside your house in a year."


                        Different spectrum entirely and that makes a big difference. We evolved to deal with sunlight. Emf is not something we are naturally exposed to at anything resembling the levels we currently enjoy. I am of the opinion that there must be some effects but they are probably not immediate and are likely very subtle.

                        The study showing strong correlations to asthma are especially interesting because the rate of asthma has exploded over the same period that the use of in home RF devices has increased dramatically. It may not be a coincidence.

                        While adding one more device to the mix may not be all that significant it is one device that is involuntary and on my own house and property. It is up to me what radiates on my property or at least it should be.
                        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                        • #13
                          file with mobile phones, wifi, & other bull**** that "will kill you "

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Evan
                            "On what grounds?"

                            On the grounds of extreme nonsense represented as science.
                            The two videos seemed restrained to me - just a couple of people using
                            HF analyzers to get a sense of the signal strength and frequency
                            emitted by residential meters. Not much in the way of hysterics.
                            The third site as a whole has a more strident tone - the Smart Meter
                            introduction at the top is reasonable enough.

                            Originally posted by Evan
                            Health Canada just took the the step of recommending that children be
                            limited from exposure to EMF including cell phones in particular. Health Canada
                            is very conservative and their decisions are based on science, not hysteria.
                            Their recent warning is directed to ALL cell phone users
                            Health Canada Offers Practical Advice on Safe Cell Phone Use 2011.10.04

                            "Health Canada reminds cell phone users that they can take practical
                            measures to reduce RF exposure. The department also encourages parents
                            to reduce their children's RF exposure from cell phones since children are
                            typically more sensitive to a variety of environmental agents."

                            CBC offered an analysis after the announcement 'Cellphones and health:
                            How Canada's precautions compare'
                            pointing out there is much that
                            remains unknown.

                            I don't have a foot in either camp for the time being.

                            I applaud the concept of giving consumers a usage gauge in one or more
                            locations through out the home to see how their behavior affects electrical
                            consumption with the expectation that they might act to spread out/lessen
                            their demand. There is a growing problem between demand and supply in
                            North America - behavior modification could extend the horizon for production
                            and distribution issues to be dealt with.

                            However, I was unaware that the utilities were deploying the kind of RF
                            infrastructure discussed here.

                            Even traffic signs in my community are broadcasting strong signals along
                            roadsides. These Ver-Mac display signs have microwave transmitters
                            that project a signal perhaps a mile down an unobstructed roadway.
                            Look for the small horizontal soup can with the translucent dome mounted
                            on the bottom left side of the display.

                            There are MANY of these trailers signs along roads in my community and
                            there is a growing number of fixed signs of similar design. Most of them do
                            not display messages, yet they continue to project RF. To what end?
                            The relevance to this thread is that these signs are yet another addition
                            to RF in the environment.



                            .
                            Last edited by EddyCurr; 10-11-2011, 03:30 PM.

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                            • #15

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