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Old Bailey No 7 Plane..... HELP !

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  • Old Bailey No 7 Plane..... HELP !

    I decided to pull this old plane out from under the bench and fix it up a bit. It's an old Bailey No. 7. I'm wondering if anyone knows what the correct angle should be for the iron??? My guess is 25 deg, + or - a few. As it stands..... the angle is about 30 deg. and very rounded. You know how it goes when the old timers used to hone them up on the old oil stone, it's badly out of square as well, but I can straighten all that out. Also.......... for this plane does the bevel face up or down??? I've seen it both ways depending on the type of plane it is. With the angle of the iron at 30 deg. the bevel can only face up if I face it down it won't come through the mouth. I doubt changing the angle 5 deg will make a difference there but though I would ask. Lastly...... does any one know if the holder is original for this plane?? It looks to be either chromed or nickeled an the raised letters STANLEY has an orange back ground. It just looks like it should be on a newer plane but I've seen a lot of these No. 7's with the same holder so maybe it is original. Any one date this??

    TNX..............

    JL.....................


  • #2
    The bevel goes down. The chip breaker, as shown in the picture, is on the wrong side of the iron.

    As to the grind angle, it will depend on what wood(s) it's intended to be used for. Highly figured/grainy wood will do better with a less acute angle. Other than that consideration, probably 25 or 30deg either would be ok ...or somewhere in between.

    (added)
    When I first made my comments above, I was thinking about block planes as being the only exceptions to "bevel down", but now I recall there are other so called "low angle" planes that (I think, haven't used one myself) also have the bevel up. After looking at your pictures, that frog does look to be a pretty low angle.

    But I still think I'd put that chip breaker on the other side and install the bevel down, and see how that works.
    Last edited by lynnl; 10-23-2011, 07:33 PM.
    Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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    • #3
      I have a few planes I need to tune up, I plan on looking here http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthr...reads.php?Cat= for info HTH
      Mike
      Brandon MI
      2003 MINI Cooper S JCW#249
      1971 Opel GT
      1985 Ford 3910LP

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      • #4
        That is the way the iron and chip breaker were set in the plane. There is no way the chip brreaker can go under the iron, it has to go on top.

        JL.................

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JoeLee
          That is the way the iron and chip breaker were set in the plane. There is no way the chip brreaker can go under the iron, it has to go on top.

          JL.................
          The chip breaker in your photos is mounted on the wrong side of the iron and the iron is installed upside down in the plane. The #7 is a bevel down plane. It looks like you need to move the frog closer to the mouth.
          Last edited by Punkinhead; 10-23-2011, 08:31 PM.

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          • #6
            Punkinhead is correct.

            Search the web for tuning old planes - there are several web sites that discuss it.

            The chip breaker, one it is tuned properly, will be positioned about 1/64" behind the cutting edge of the blade and will fit without a gap all the way across. As the wood chip being produced by the cutting edge contacts the chip breaker, the chip will be forced to curl up, and it will break. This prevents the chip from becoming a lever that could split the wood in front of the cutting edge.

            The position of the frog is important. When everything is adjusted, the chip being produced should barely fit between the mouth opening and the iron. This prevents the iron from splitting the wood. So the blade depth sets the thickness of the chip, the position of the frog and chip breaker make sure the wood ahead of the blade isn't split.
            Last edited by Tony Ennis; 10-23-2011, 08:43 PM.

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            • #7
              Punkinhead, that is what I thought, bevel down. The problem I'm running into is by the time I move the iron out far enough to take even the finest cut there is no room for the chip to pass through the mouth, regardless of where I move the frog. This is where I'm confused. Thats why I thought i would start with grinding the proper angle on the iron and see where that puts me. I searched the internet but couldn't really find a detailed enough picture of this plane to tell weather the bevel is up or down.

              JL.................

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              • #8
                I'll try flipping it around tomorrow and post some pics of how it fits.
                Somethings funny here and this thing is too simple to be messin with my brain.
                JL...............

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                • #9
                  This is the bible of Stanley planes.

                  Handplane tune-up here.

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                  • #10
                    OK, here is what I got. If I don't get this figured out tonight I won't sleep. I put the bevel down which is the way I figured it was supposed to go in the first place, with the chip breaker positioned about a 32nd behind the edge. It makes sense as the Stanley logo is showing on top. But...... there is a very small gap at the mouth and the cutting edge is still above the sole and needs to come down more before it will start to cut. If I move the frog back any more the iron will start to touch the mouth opening which is only about a .188 wide slot. Then the iron will not lay flat on the angle of the frog, that isn't correct either. The frog is already almost as far back as it can go. Tony...... thanks for the link, a lot of reading ther but I'll figure the rest of this out tomorrow.

                    JL.................


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                    • #11
                      A bit hard to be sure from the photo, but it looks like you are trying to use an iron (cutter) from a wooden plane rather than a Stanley one, and they do not fit. Is the iron tapered in thickness as it looks - thinner at the top than the cutting edge ? The Stanley iron was clearly marked on the sharp side at the top edge and it was the same thickness throughout the length of the iron. It is somewhat thinner than the thick end of a tapered iron. The bevel is too short at least. It should be approximately twice as long as the thickness of the iron.

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                      • #12
                        Nope..... that is the original iron for that plane. The thickness is the same from top to bottom, it's not tapered. Actually the bevel I think is too long, it's better than twice the thickness of the iron. That is why I inquired about the angle of the cutting edge in my first post. As it stands the angle is about 30 deg. Changing it to about 25 deg. should make the length of the bevel equal to twice the thickness of the iron.

                        JL................

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeLee
                          Nope..... that is the original iron for that plane. The thickness is the same from top to bottom, it's not tapered. Actually the bevel I think is too long, it's better than twice the thickness of the iron. That is why I inquired about the angle of the cutting edge in my first post. As it stands the angle is about 30 deg. Changing it to about 25 deg. should make the length of the bevel equal to twice the thickness of the iron.

                          JL................

                          Grind the edge of the iron to 25 deg. KEEP IT COOL!!! UNDER NO CICUMSTANCEs allow ANY discolouration!! When you have ground the edge square, use a honing jig to hand hone the cutting edge at 30 deg. It only needs a few thou' but can be up to about .030 wide. When you can feel a very slight 'burr' on the face side, by sliding your finger or thumb UP the blade towards the edge (be very careful) turn the blade over, lay it flat on the honing stone and hone off the burr. Repeat the honing of the edge for three or four strokes and repeat the burr removal technique. At this stage you should have a razor sharp edge. Hold the blade up to the light and see if you can see any light reflected off the edge. If you can - it's not sharp.

                          Strop the edge at on an old wide leather belt, about 45 deg, bevel side down and about 20 deg, bevel side up to revove the whiskers left over from removing the burr.

                          NzOldun

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                          • #14
                            Read the info in the links Tony posted. It's all there.

                            And don't file out the mouth unless you've really done your homework.
                            Once it's cut larger you can't put it back!!!

                            And whatever you do, don't do anything that will put a bevel on the back of the iron. Just
                            flat polish only! This includes stropping.

                            Pete
                            1973 SB 10K .
                            BenchMaster mill.

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                            • #15
                              Changing the bevel won't do anything for your mouth clearance issues. Having said that the mouth doesn't need to be gaping wide. And the blade may have been a thicker replacement. Your plane does not come from the golden period of plane manufacturing but the era of "value engineering". It is possible that the mouth was never correctly dimensioned hence the attempt to use the frog retracted.

                              The painted handles and very rough grinding on the frog are evidence of that. The lever cap is correct.

                              Tuning up a plane is straightforward but time consuming. If you know how to scrape you can flatten the sole and match the frog to the body etc.

                              Almost every element of those planes need attention to work better-they were a kit as sold.

                              Greg (I've fixed up about 25 of those things over the years-the first one took two days of lapping/honing/matching plus cosmetics)

                              On edit...from the photos it looks like you have a LOT of work to flatten the back of that blade. It has to be a mirror and dead flat up to the edge.
                              Last edited by Greg Q; 10-24-2011, 05:21 AM.

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