OT: Wind turbines?

[Black Forest]

Any of you all live close to these big windturbines for generating electricity?

We were just informed by the town that they are considering building three windturbines very close to us. 800meters away from us. We own all the land around us but the town owns the land on top of the hill where they want to build these things.

We don't want them built and we will do everything we can to stop them but it is not just the local government we have to handle.

Could be a tough battle or I should say war.

We have had only three days to research but what we have going for us are the bats. yep, bats. They can't build these things were there is a high concentration of bats. We have lots of bats in the area.

[justanengineer]

I have several relatives working in the wind industry, one of which was recently responsible for a study on the myth that turbines kill birds/bats. Yup, myth. Good luck fighting the system, but I suspect you will lose. Big industry = big money = lots of angry folks to argue with you.

There are a ton of myths surrounding wind turbines regarding their "harmful" effects on the environment, how "loud" turbines are, how they arent profitable etc, and I have never found one that was true. Yes, there are a lot of shady companies out there more interested in taking government money than making power, but those are in the minority. Most wind farms are easily profitable within a decade, dont hurt the environment one bit, and the only noise you hear are the transformers - assuming youre within 50 feet of the turbine (which you shouldnt be unless you own the land or work there).

In the northeast US turbines are a very good thing IMHO. They provide cheap sources of power to the local area, and boost the local economies. One of my mother's cousins in NY has 6 of them on their farm. 6 turbines x $8000 paid annually plus a few bucks every year for electricity made beyond a certain amount = a nice income IMHO. Also consider the cranes, crews, and equipment that need to be brought in when major work is done on them, and you can probably see how the local economy is helped. I personally know quite a few of these crew members that have houses near the wind parks on a semi-permanent lease in addition to the houses they own to make "commuting" easier.

I would be seriously interested in helping their construction if I were you. If the park expands, you may be in a prime area to make a ton of money. Regardless, what harm are they doing to you?

[SteveF]

I have several relatives working in the wind industry, one of which was recently responsible for a study on the myth that turbines kill birds/bats. Yup, myth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU

I guess it just counts as wounded?

Steve

[Tony]

I have 12 turbines on the ridge probably about 600-800 meters from my
back door.

Don't take this the wrong way, i'm all for renewables, I have a small turbine
on my own roof, but it really does come down to who's running the show,
who's doing the installation and the upkeep.

the goons who put these in only wanted the gov't money.

first of all they're an eye sore. they were "neat" maybe the first year
but now they stick out like a sore thumb. theyre not right on the peak
they're maybe 100meters
down towards the town.. they could've put them on the other side that
way at least you don't see them from here and i bet the wind is exactly
the same. maybe was just easier to cut the roads, dunno.

i wouldn't call them loud but
you can definitely hear them. i think you pick up the rythmic low frequency
"beat" more than the actual "noise" .. but if you pay attention you'll hear
them.

one of the big probs here (Italy) is there is plenty of (gov't) money to
put them up but there is rarely money in place for upkeep (3 of the 12 have
stopped spinning within 2 years of installation).. and there is certainly
NO money for their disposal. this is a big issue here. well it was for
a minute then no one cared.

Italy will be a wind farm graveyard.. it costs a lot of money to take
one of those things down.

Also the gravel roads built to get them where they need to be have
left criss cross patterns across our mountain range. if they would've
continued the road to the next town over at least they'd be useful
but right now they dead end into each wind turbine.

-Tony

[saltmine]

I have a brother who lives in Alaska. He and his wife have a cabin out on the inlet, and went to the power company to see about getting electric power to the cabin. My brother doesn't want to hassle with generators, batteries, and fuel tanks.

They were both floored by the quote the power company gave them.

After a little research, my brother contacted a wind turbine company (the wind blows constantly where his cabin is situated)

Anyway, for 1/3 the cost of stringing a power line out to his cabin, the wind turbine company set up a turbine that provides plenty of electricity for the cabin, and then some (actually the turbine he bought could power a small town). They also gave him free maintenance and a lifetime guarantee on the turbine and the installation. When the local power company heard about it, they were "Johnny-on-the-spot" offering to string lines out to his cabin, at a greatly reduced price, if he would let them have the excess power his turbine generated. (he bought a BIG turbine) He told them to "go pound sand".
I asked him if the thing was an eyesore or if it was noisy. He just smiles and said the damned thing is beautiful, and since it's on the other end of his property, doesn't even hear it...He likes free electricity.

[sasquatch]

There has been a HUGE controversy in the news for some time now about the effects of wind turbines in Ontario Canada.

Noise seems to be the biggest one and YES along with the birds running into them. The nay sayers say this doesn,t happen, but TV news reports show migrating dead song birds at the base of the towers, SO, wonder how the songbirds got into a dead condition and happen to be lying at the base of the towers?

I have none in my area thankfully and pics i,ve seen of them ,they certainly are an ugly horizon.
A number of farmers who at first thought they were a good thing have since changed their mind.

[aboard_epsilon]

THEY ARE WRONG
They cost too much ..you have to have manned back up power stations for when the wind isn't blowing
They break gearboxes ..the farm off the coast from me consisting of 22 wind turbines has had 13 gearboxes replaced at a cost of £300,000 a time
The gearboxes will bust again ..because they don't know how to build into them with the ability to stand a sudden gusts of very strong wind
the cost of them is paid for by the public in higher fuel bills ,
they only have a short lifespan ..and then need to be replaced.
money isn't being saved by them ..the money is being made for the companies erecting and maintaining them , and that is it.
We are being duped.
all the best..markj

[saltmine]

You mentioned birds running into the wind turbines, Sasquatch. There was an article in the news a few days ago about a huge flock of migratory birds "crash landing" in a "Wal-Mart" parking lot. Most of the birds were either dead or injured. I guess this proves that some species of birds are incredibly stupid, too.

Not to mention the three or four Canadian Geese that flew into "Sully" Sullenberger's engines forcing him to ditch that Airbus A-320 in the Hudson River....Of course, this kind of behavior is usually expected from Canadian birds...

Maybe we should outlaw "Wal-Mart" parking lots and Airbus A-320's too?

Fortunately, the birds in question only make that mistake....once.

[sasquatch]

I agree to some extent as i find it strange that birds would actually fly into these things, you'd think they would simply fly around them.

However it,s the migrating birds flying at night apparently that end up flying into them.
Much like the birds flying into the glass at night on high rise apt/office towers.

[lost_cause]

i always get a little frustrated about these because i've seen and heard the same thing locally. i can find 100 out of 100 people who will complain about the cost of taxes, fuel, or any number of essential goods, but out of those 100, at least 95% aren't willing to accept any change to try to lessen the costs. we've had the same "not in my back yard" screams from landowners around here when turbines have been brought in. i've also heard of a hydro power site being abandoned because the transmission lines were an eyesore. in my state there is very little heavy industry too, because most people don't want to change. along the coast there have been multiple towns that have refused walmart stores because they didn't want to disturb the local image.

the thing is, population is not going down. foreign countries that have taken over a lot of our manufacturing and jobs are developing much larger middle classes, and everyone wants the good life too. unless fuel oil prices are a global conspiracy hidden by every government and industrialist on the planet, we aren't going to see $0.25 a gallon fuel prices again. we obviously need to explore and find alternate sources for generating power. at some point we have to stop complaining about things unless we don't want unless we have a solution for them. even if it isn't perfect we've got to explore, test, and develop these alternatives at some point - before we have no choice.

i too believe there is a lot of hype and misinformation about alternative energies. rare earth elements are not abundant in most places, so batteries and turbines aren't as green as they may seem on the surface. couple that with federal subsidies that come out of our tax dollars it certainly is difficult to tell whether we are really getting our money's worth. the problem is, we still have to do it at some point. we can't bury our heads in the sand until one source of energy is not available and then scratch our heads wondering what to do next. actually, with the current attitudes we'll probably do just that, and when it runs out we'll just complain because nobody thought of a plan for that day.

at the end of the day we have to look at it in a big picture scheme and not just take what is best for ourselves.

[Evan]

There is no way of making electrical power that doesn't have disadvantages. Wind turbines can be very noisy. There are many different designs and some are much better/worse than others. A major issue in cold climates is ice slinging. Wind turbines can sling large chunks of ice which appears to be a very common problem in Germany.

Here is an example with ice throws up to nearly half a kilometre.

132 Miscellaneous 29/07/2000 Hamm-Sieg Germany Road "L290 to be defused" article in local
newspaper.

On a 4km stretch of the L290
road where wind turbines are clearly visible,
73 accidents reported over 4 years. Four
accidents very serious but none fatal.
Components and ice reported thrown over
400m, onto and over the road. Date is of
newspaper article
"Rhein-Zeitung", Lokalteil Westerwald-Sieg,
29 July 2000
http://wilfriedheck.tripod.com/2unf.htm

There are many more such reports listed in this document of wind turbine accidents with numerous accounts of ice throws in Germany.

http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/fullaccidents.pdf

[darryl]

They make a pretty good adhesive product these days- look at licence plate stickers- they could easily make a stick-on leading edge tape for windmill blades that includes strings of leds. A simple brushless device at the end of each blade would operate from the wind, maybe catch some of the vortex from the blade, and operate the leds. Maybe fewer birds would fly into the blades if they could see the spinning light show-

As far as the windmills themselves- isn't there a connection between low frequency sound and effects on the human condition? I'm not against windmills per se, but I am against steam-rollering projects where the effects on people, animals, and the environment aren't well enough known, or are known but ignored by those who are enforcing the projects.

[Bmyers]

I can look out my windows and see almost 100 turbines. Closest are less than a quarter mile. I don't hear anything and they are kind of elegant to watch. Fun to watch the crop dusters fly around them.

[Rustybolt]

[QUOTE=Black Forest]Any of you all live close to these big windturbines for generating electricity?

We were just informed by the town that they are considering building three windturbines very close to us. 800meters away from us. We own all the land around us but the town owns the land on top of the hill where they want to build these things.

We don't want them built and we will do everything we can to stop them but it is not just the local government we have to handle.

Could be a tough battle or I should say war.

We have had only three days to research but what we have going for us are the bats. yep, bats. They can't build these things were there is a high concentration of bats. We have lots of bats in the area.[/QUOTE


Since you live in Germany all bets are off. What the state wants the state gets.
Here in Illinois it's the same except you can sue the state over immanent domain and make their proposition a lot more expensive.

[Tony Ennis]

I'll believe in windmills (in the USA) when powers companies buy and erect them without getting government subsidies. If they are cost effective as the proponents say, it will be a no-brainer and farms will pop up everywhere.