Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT: Wind turbines?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by SteveF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU

    I guess it just counts as wounded?

    Steve
    The number of birds killed by automobiles this year in the US per automobile in the US is significnatly greater than the number of birds killed by turbines in the US per turbine. Simply stated, your car is more likely to kill a bird today than a turbine.

    I am normally a very skeptical person of new technologies until theyre time tested and proven in use. In this case, having lived near them and having relatives that work on them daily, I am a firm believer in them. I havent found the major downside yet. Regarding a low frequency hum or beat - never heard it, nor do I know anyone who has. I personally find them beautiful and think they enhance the landscape, but then again, even super-models have people talking trash about their beauty so to each their own.

    Originally posted by Tony Ennis
    I'll believe in windmills (in the USA) when powers companies buy and erect them without getting government subsidies. If they are cost effective as the proponents say, it will be a no-brainer and farms will pop up everywhere.
    If the government offered you free money, would you not take it? I know plenty of local farmers who seriously despise the local politicians, yet continue taking similar subsidies despite not needing them. Regarding needing subsidies, I know of one back home that was paid for in under 3 years.
    Last edited by justanengineer; 12-19-2011, 08:28 PM.
    "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by saltmine
      Of course, this kind of behavior is usually expected from Canadian birds...

      Maybe we should outlaw "Wal-Mart" parking lots and Airbus A-320's too?
      You could outlaw snowbirds and get rid of the Canucks? Their migration must be heavy this time of year?

      Seriously I'm not sure I would be that enthusiastic about a wind farm setting up near me, for one we usually appreciate the beauty where you hang your hat and people are reluctant to change. That said I would love to setup a large residential inverter turbine and get a check every month instead of a bill. The towers are costly. Since Alberta deregulated the utility industry my power bills have risen 400%.....no joke.....the trouble is what you sell to the grid is paid a pitance of what you consume.
      Last edited by hardtail; 12-19-2011, 09:03 PM.
      Opportunity knocks once, temptation leans on the doorbell.....

      Comment


      • #18
        There was one that toppled over not too far from me a year ago or so.
        Officials and engineers crawling all over the site. They BS'ed the news media and took over 6 monthes to come forward with their findings. By that time everyone had forgotten all about it. The first pictures of the base posted on the news told it all. It fell because of an interupted pour of the base. It seperated perfectly just above the bends in the anchor bolts, almost like it was a seperate ring of concrete. There was mention of pouring the concrete in 90 degree plus temperatures and traffic problems that caused great delays in the trucks comming in with concrete. It was very obvious by the way the base so perfectly seperated the the concrete in the ground had set before the base was topped off. So if some company is going to build these just make sure it's far enough away from your house if it falls.

        JL........................

        Comment


        • #19
          The Dutch aren't too happy with them.Reuter's article,pay close attention to who's paying for them now,and who will be paying for them.

          http://www.epaw.org/documents.php?lang=en&article=no2
          I just need one more tool,just one!

          Comment


          • #20
            I have 5 acres here. To any power company that can get permitted and wants to use my land...call me. $1000 per month per fan... I'm good. Hook me up.

            Cheers
            Mac.

            Comment


            • #21
              They break gearboxes ..the farm off the coast from me consisting of 22 wind turbines has had 13 gearboxes replaced at a cost of £300,000 a time
              The gearboxes will bust again ..because they don't know how to build into them with the ability to stand a sudden gusts of very strong wind
              The latest development in wind power is gearless units.

              As for windmills killing birds, I'd wager that picture windows kill more than windmills do. The windows on our house, alone, kill at least a dozen birds a year. As far as that goes, it is a proven fact that more birds are killed by automobiles than are harvested by hunters.

              Outlaw picture windows! Automobiles!

              Humbug.

              Orrin
              So many projects. So little time.

              Comment


              • #22
                A year ago, the county commissioned 50 windmills along a ridge several miles east of our property in Alberta. It is the most northerly installation I've seen in Alberta.

                The installation took at least 8 months. There were numerous issues with overlength/overdimension loads and the older grid roads. The towers each have a single beacon. All 50 flash in synch. The wind farm is visible for 20 miles day or night. Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder.

                I have no run data, only anecdotal/very casual observation. From that, the wind turbines have been parked as often as they have run - even in seemingly favorable wind conditions. I wonder what the payout on that will be?
                Last edited by camdigger; 12-19-2011, 11:05 PM.
                Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

                Comment


                • #23
                  Couple times a year I drive past the huge wind farm in Indiana, I think they have over 200 of them in the group. At night, all their red lights are blinking in unison.



                  I would NOT want to be living near that.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Don't know if its pure coincidence or if it "highlighted" for a reason but from what I've read, there seems to be a fairly common thread about eagles, hawks and other raptors being killed at multiple wind farm locations within the US.

                    http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...-eagle-country

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by T.Hoffman
                      Couple times a year I drive past the huge wind farm in Indiana, I think they have over 200 of them in the group. At night, all their red lights are blinking in unison.

                      I would NOT want to be living near that.
                      I couldnt find an official site for Fowler Ridge, but 355 turbines according to other sources, with another large expansion in the planning stages. I drive by it on I65 almost weekly and am among the many locals here that love it. As for nights, SWMBO has drug me up there more than once to "see the lights."
                      "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I'm not real close, but the Altimont Pass windfarm is 10 or 15 miles from here.

                        They have problems from occasional grass fires, but not too many bird problems. It's amazing to see the many different designs. The grass fires are caused by downed power lines.

                        Large birds have problems with any power grid. They tend to perch high and stretch their wings... arcing across the high voltage wires.

                        The biggest wind turbines turn very slow and ( I imagine ) would pose little danger to birds. There are a couple on I5 near Tracy California that look to be hundreds of feet high.

                        Our community does not allow residential windmills. Darn.

                        Dan
                        At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                        Location: SF East Bay.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          4 or so years ago, there was ONE wind farm on 39 north in Illinois..... Now there are at least 5 or 6, depending on how you count them in groups..... Apparently they are wanted, or nobody would build them...... guvm'nt assistance does not hurt, of course.

                          In a good wind area, they can be very effective, producing a lot of power.... the large slow ones are 2 or 3MW, so a farm of 50 is equal to a small conventional power plant.

                          problems?

                          Sure.... everything has problems. Towers fall over..... power plants blow up..... or have coal fires, or spread radioactive byproducts over a wide swath of a country..... I'd reckon that Fukushima has already caused more expensive problems than the sum of every wind turbine that has ever been built for any purpose whatsioever.

                          Do they produce?

                          yes..... big ones in good places do. Small ones for your house, those do not, in most cases.

                          Smaller wind turbines are rated at 30 mph wind. At half speed of wind, they produce 1/8 of rated power...... so a 100kW turbine produces 12.5 kW at 15 mph wind.

                          You need a turbine to be placed where the winds are high and pretty constant.

                          The newest thing is turbines that work at any speed..... and do not have to be synchronous. Allows producing more total power per year, and reduces the gearbox problem.

                          Unfortunately, that technology (booster/inverter) lowers the efficiency about 5 or 6 percent, which partly offsets the increased up-time.. I have designed controls and power systems for smaller turbines of that type.

                          Covering the place in wind turbines will only produce about 20% of the needed power. But turbines at least CAN go all night..... Solar, which has a LOT MORE potential, is not helpful at night without a viable storage system. So far that storage is not so hot..... essentially all of it is in a tiny number of pumped storage setups.
                          Last edited by J Tiers; 12-20-2011, 01:25 AM.
                          CNC machines only go through the motions.

                          Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                          Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                          Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                          I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                          Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by justanengineer
                            The number of birds killed by automobiles this year in the US per automobile in the US is significnatly greater than the number of birds killed by turbines in the US per turbine. Simply stated, your car is more likely to kill a bird today than a turbine.
                            That in no way justifies killing more. It is an invalid argument as it doesn't address the issue. We aren't discussing killing birds with cars. Also, even if we were, where is the evidence?

                            Regarding a low frequency hum or beat - never heard it, nor do I know anyone who has.
                            Many people have heard it or it wouldn't be a big issue. Where I live it is very, very quiet. We like it that way, especially at night. No traffic, no sirens, no loud music or industrial sounds. I would be extremely pissed if there was anything artificial that generated noise that I could hear at any level on a constant basis. I live here for a number of reasons and the quietness is one of them. This a rural residential area and no industrial activity is permitted anywhere within several kilometres. Everyone knows to stop their noise making activities at a reasonable hour in the evening and we all do. when my neighbor is working night shift I take care not to make a lot of noise.
                            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jerry
                              Smaller wind turbines are rated at 30 mph wind. At half speed of wind, they produce 1/8 of rated power...... so a 100kW turbine produces 12.5 kW at 15 mph wind.
                              That is the biggest problem from an economic standpoint. Wind turbines need to be sized for the maximum wind in which they will operate. Unfortunately, that is rarely available anywhere. If you build it for high efficiency in low winds you have to shut it down in high winds. If you build to take advantage of high winds you almost never get the efficiency that high winds produce. For those reasons wind farms rarely ever produce the power they were designed to produce.

                              Wind turbine design is still evolving and some of the obstacles are inherent in the physics and cannot be overcome. The number one issue is of course that they are not a reliable source of power. They also do not produce much power at night on average since it is daytime solar heating that drives much wind other than large storms or deep low pressure systems.

                              What I see as the ultimate future energy source is a staple of science fiction, the Magma Tap. There have been some very interesting experiments done recently in Iceland where they actually accidentally drilled into the molten lava zone. It halted the project but then they realized that it might be much better that they planned. The potential from one particular well is to produce about 25 megawatts instead of the usual 5 to 8 MW they get from a regular geothermal well.

                              http://www.powermag.com/renewables/geothermal/3548.html

                              There are plenty of places in the US and Canada where this is feasible. British Columbia has 17 major volcanoes that are rated as active with the last major eruption about 100 years ago at Lava Forks.
                              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                The next town to me has one of the greenest community colleges in the US they just put up 2 wind towers, they take care of between 85 and 92 % of the power the school uses, I've parked on the street which is about 150 yards away from the towers to hear them and I'm disappointed (lol) there is no noise, no pulsing, no throbbing, and 1 of the classes they teach, once a week they do a grid walk looking for dead birds, so far no dead birds. The turbines have been on line for 6 months now. All the buildings are heated by renewable resources, wood. When they were in the talking stages National Grid agreed to terms, and then tried to renege on the terms, NG miscalculated about the amount of electricity that would be produced and tried to renegotiate the terms, whoops, its state college they lost.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X