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Shaper practice run -- QCTP holders

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  • Shaper practice run -- QCTP holders

    Nothing exciting.. but everybody likes pictures right?

    Lathe came with a QCTP and only 2 tool holders. Thought it would
    be fun / learning experience to put the shaper through its paces
    to make a few more.

    Ordered some stock, probably won't see it until after xmas.. I plan
    on cutting the dovetails first, three 9" blocks or so.. and chop
    them up into separate tool holders.

    For now I thought I'd make one and see how it goes. I have some
    questions / concerns about the best order of operations.. any suggestions
    appreciated.

    This is the holder in question.. 60* dovetails on the back:



    This is a "small block" (only stock I have).. will make it into an indicator
    holder. Chopping a 4.25" block..



    dang nabbit .. right at the end of the cut! could've bought a couple
    of tool holders for the damage i done did.


  • #2
    Some layout



    I don't have a 3" mic so a caliper will have to do. The hardened pins
    I'm measuring across don't look spectacular.. but they're round.



    I figure I have some breathing room here as the toolpost has a decent
    range of motion .. if the dovetails come out 5 thou wider or narrower
    I don't think it will make a difference.

    square the block up in the shaper


    I have a 30-60-90 ref square and used that to set the head:



    more to come but its cold out in the shop and my camera battery doesnt
    quite like that.

    I have made only one 'dovetail' cutter and plan to flip the block to cut
    the other side.. measuring across pins as I get to my line.

    I'm not quite sure how I'll ensure that both flats (the large flats on
    both sides of the dovetail) will stay in the same plane. In a mill this
    would be a no brainer (just don't move anything!).. but having to flip
    the block around.. that shaper vice isn't the most repeatable.

    I suppose I could go back in with an indicator but what a pitb.

    I may just relieve the flats near the dovetails that way I can make
    one final cut on both sides to make sure everything is planar.

    -Tony

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not quite sure how I'll ensure that both flats (the large flats on
      both sides of the dovetail) will stay in the same plane
      . In a mill this
      would be a no brainer (just don't move anything!).. but having to flip
      the block around.. that shaper vice isn't the most repeatable.
      As its a swivel vise you could cut one side then turn vice 180° (assuming the vice is level with ram stroke) clock to first face & away you go

      BUT be careful & take light cuts, operating a shaper with the work side ways in the vise as shown can lead to the work being pushed out or up & out of jaws .

      Safest way is the ram pushing work against jaw.
      John

      I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure , but I'm not a complete idiot - some bits are still missing

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jugs
        ...BUT be careful & take light cuts, operating a shaper with the work side ways in the vise as shown can lead to the work being pushed out or up & out of jaws .
        Whats wrong with that? If do a major mistake everything that happens ist that your workpiece drops to the floor. Noone hurt, except if you put your foot under it in that moment.

        Originally posted by jugs
        Safest way is the ram pushing work against jaw.
        This is just the safest way to break your machine, your vice or your tool if you make a mistake.

        (Ever seen a HSS bit breaking? A lot of shrapnel...)

        I know nowone who would do it that way, vice jawas are always parallel to the ram stroke, for safety an efficiency reasons.

        Thomas

        Comment


        • #5
          I would. Jaws at 90 degrees to ram stroke whenever possible is the rule around here.

          Al

          Comment


          • #6
            I never worked a shaper but I would think with the material being narrow it would be better with the jaws 90 degrees to the stroke as well. If there is any good amount of force on that material at all I would think it would rock up out of the vise no problem set up the way it is.
            Andy

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by madmec
              I know no one who would do it that way, vice jaws are always parallel to the ram stroke, for safety an efficiency reasons.

              Thomas
              That theory doesn't hold true in fact it's the reverse.
              If work can move it will, 18th law of workshop fact.

              And what will happen is the work will tip and instead of presenting the depth of cut you have set, the tool will be facing the work in a tipped position and smack into it actually causing more damage.

              Shapers which do present more cutting forces than milling machines should always have their vises parallel to the stroke.
              .

              Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



              Comment


              • #8

                Comment


                • #9
                  That picture describes holding a thin piece of work as opposed to how to mount the vise.

                  If transposed to the work show in the OP this makes the sideways mounting incorrect as Tony is holding by the narrow edges.

                  Good point though in that sometimes you have to hold by a sideways mounted vise.
                  .

                  Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I left the vice the way its shown as my longer stock (10") will have
                    to be fit that way. Since its my first time cutting dovetails (or anything
                    really!) in the shaper, I knew I was going to be taking it slow and didn't
                    think orientation would be a big deal.

                    That said, the more comfortable I got, the more aggressive cutting I
                    found myself doing. Until I knocked the part loose.

                    So I turned the vice around.

                    completed roughing cut. on average I was about 0.030" DOC and
                    0.025" feed per stroke:



                    roughing in the dovetail:



                    finished dovetail and a couple of strokes to break the sharp corners:





                    Shaper is slow & hypnotic. on the finish passes I was right in there
                    and only really noticed how close i'd gotten when the chips started hitting
                    me in the nose.

                    The cutting oil had washed off most of my blue so I was looking hard
                    to find my scribe marks.

                    I think there must be a cut off point.. ie part this small:
                    mill. a gang of blocks 10" long.. shaper. if nothing else at least the roughing
                    passes to hog out material.

                    Shaper is a LOT of fun. its the only machine in the shop I now have
                    a chair next to. ha.

                    tried flipping the part and dialing it in for the other side. my vice stinks.
                    I wish I would've left the work alone and just ground another tool.

                    to be continued..

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looks great! How you cleaning the chips up?
                      Andy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        easy, I just take my shirt off and turn it inside out over the trash can.

                        (don't know if this is what you meant?. but just a chip brush. a rag to wipe
                        the oil off so the pictures are purdy)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tony,

                          Maybe I missed it, but what QCTP is that?, it has a male dovetail on the tool holder, the Aloris/Dorian types have the male dovetail on the tool post.
                          jack

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            DOH!









                            its an Impero P3/70 .. bottom of page:
                            http://www.imperotools.com/site/repportherr/cat-416.pdf

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would suggest that you rough out the opening where the tool holder fits before you finish anything. Things move when you remove a lot of metal.

                              Comment

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