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It's cute anyway....

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  • #16
    Is that a model or the real thing? It's so tiny it looks like a crank handle on the back.


    • #17
      Here is a review of the mill.


      • #18
        To me, it looks pretty feather weight compared to an Atlas.
        "A machinist's (WHAP!) best friend (WHAP! WHAP!) is his hammer. (WHAP!)" - Fred Tanner, foreman, Lunenburg Foundry and Engineering machine shop, circa 1979


        • #19
          Originally posted by J Tiers
          Slab mills shear, and probably apply less pressure than a lot of straight tooth and side milling cutters.
          I don't wish to hijack, but I'm not convinced by that supposition. It seems to me a cut is a cut. It will either shear (aka "cut") or rub or break (the cutter). The forces may be applied in different ways, but I tend to think the actual cutting force will be quantifiably the same. In any case, the work would likely not be too large here. A large DOC is probably not needed or will be within the capacity of the machine for a gang-mill setup. You only have 6" to work with after all! I do think it is funny that the reviewer immediately tries to mount something too large and extends the vertical head all the way out. ...also that he uses a 1" end mill He's a true to life HSM'er, Haha!

          I do like the general direction this mill embarks on. A return to an adaptive, "universal" design reminiscent of some of the historical European machines that have gained a cult following. I do think the U1 likely hits a nice sweet spot as a "small horizontal". You have the Sherline which is adaptable as a horizontal, but this steps up enough to provide a noticeable difference. What is there between a full size or dual spindle, H/V knee mill and the U1 when it comes to horizontals? If we ignore for the moment the passing reference to a U2 by the reviewer, nothing, really, other than the old Atlases and Benchmasters. This is priced favorably against one of those---not to mention the half-complete kits those old ones might be. I say, "good job, Seig".
          Last edited by Arthur.Marks; 01-04-2012, 10:50 PM.


          • #20
            Originally posted by mickeyf
            To me, it looks pretty feather weight compared to an Atlas.
            Might look that way, but the weights are pretty close. Atlas catalog weight for MFC minus motor is 200lbs. U1 with motor is 250lbs. They're essentially equal.


            • #21
              After reading the review I am seriously looking at it for one reason.Every three months or so I get a job milling 1/8" key ways in some 1/2" shafts,about 300 of them at a lick.This mill and a carbide saw would be vastly better than using the B-port like I'm doing now.Plus using a 2,000lb machine to mill a 1" long key slot in a 3 ounce part is a bit ridiculous
              I just need one more tool,just one!


              • #22
                Originally posted by Arthur.Marks
                I find it interesting someone decided to design a new machine with a plain (no quill) vertical milling head.
                Some of us consider that a benefit, not a drawback if that is what you mean.

                Not for me thanks, but to each their own. For that money I could buy several of my dream K&T universal horizontals with a true geared spindle feed, not a mini plain horizontal without. Barring that, I could pretty easily find any of the similar sized domestic horizontals for that money and get more features.

                It is kinda cute tho.
                "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."


                • #23
                  Thinking about this more, I guess the part I find exciting is thinking about this as a platform --- all the possibilities for adaptation. It could make more than a few HSM articles! I'm picturing the "spindle-with-motor-as-module" thing in the manner of the Arboga UM400. The Seig is obviously not the exact same concept, but there are similarities when you consider it as a mounting platform with x/y table, aligned mounting bores in both vertical and horizontal planes, and an independently driven spindle.


                  • #24
                    Its more than cute - it has the potential to be very useful for me as it will fit in nicely with my shop and what I do. I have been eyeing off a turret mill for quite a while but most are too big with too big a foot-print.

                    I thought the review was very objective and covered all bases for me.

                    R8 collets and quill taper are no use to me as I am all MT3.

                    I'd prefer to wait the next/larger model with an MT3 quill taper as it has more head-room as well.

                    They talk of using a dividing head but I can see no reason why a 6" "Vertex" (or "Phase 11") in vertical mode can't do the job just as well.

                    I have the Sieg X3 and SX3 vertical mill-drills and they are really good and if the newer vertical/horizontal mill - the subject of this thread - is as well made I will be verry pleased.

                    Mention was made of using the horizontal arbor nuts to clamp the cutters as it seems that there is no normal keyway for a standard 1/4" key. If that is so it will restrict the current rotation to one direction which if the cutter does not "slip" will or may cause the cutter to cause the arbor nut to jamb up very tightly whereas the "other/reverse" direction will or may cause the arbor nut to loosen with the cutter slipping and "crashing".

                    $US1,000 in the USA will be about half of what we will pay in Australia ie $US2,000 which with the $AU being near enough to parity with the $US will be about $AU2,000.

                    If or when we get it here and after a look, feel and test-run (no load) at my suppliers premises is OK, the price to me is quite reasonable.

                    I don't do any "big" or "production" jobs (they are a "no-no" here) as it is a small hobby shop.


                    • #25
                      The big problem I see is the minimum RPM is about 200. Way to fast for anything other than aluminum in horizontal mode. And there will probably be almost no power since it is just the generic PMDC motor with a SCR drive. If it was the brushless motor that they are putting on others it might fare better.


                      • #26
                        Oh I don't know.

                        2", 2.5" and 3" side and face cutters as well as saws etc. are OK and not too expensive. Some slab milling cutters are available as well.

                        My Sieg X3 and SX3 mills go down to about 100>200 RPM and I can't stall them by hand and the change of speed is minimal.

                        The SX3 with its tapping facility will tap a 3/8" what-ever thread with-out too much bother - better still with speed and spiral taps are even better. Both will drive my tapping heads.

                        But a lot more common sense and a lot less tear-ar*ing and "macho" or pseudo "production" capers and they do what they are made for very well.

                        If the new Sieg horizontal mill performs as well I will get one (the larger/later one with the MT3 quill taper) and I am sure that I will be quite pleased with it.

                        But a caution and warning. Non-sharp (ie "blunt") horizontal milling cutters can ruin a job or machine and accidents are more likely.

                        So several cutters are required as there will or may be a lot of cutter sharpening on a good tool and cutter grinder will needed. If you have one, OK, but if you don't get to know someone who can do it for you - possibly at a reasonable cost.


                        • #27
                          Ok, Nifty machine, But where do you get th 1/2" arbor cutters for the horzontal arbor? (or whatever it uses.. does not look big enough to take 1" arbor cutters)
                          Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.


                          • #28
                            I'm not convinced by the cuteness.

                            This probably sounds rather negative, but I don't think a mill built as lightly as that will be useful in horizontal mode.

                            The spindle speeds really need to go down to below 100 rpm to make use of a slitting saw or side and face cutter. The torque needed to drive such cutters is considerable, and I rather doubt that the motor gearbox is built for that. The arbor diameter looks small and deflection of it and the rest of the mill is likely to require very small cuts. The problem raised about sourcing cutters to fit is significant.

                            Of course I could be quite wrong, but I would like to see some real accounts of practical usage from someone who has some experience of a larger mill before I would be convinced.


                            • #29
                              I have had one for about 9 months.
                              If you are looking at one of these as a main machine then unless you are doing clock or Gauge 00 trains all the while they will not suit.

                              However there are niche markets in any hobby and these fill that market, like as I mentioned the clock and small electric train guys.

                              Mine is setup with an angled plate type jig and is putting 20 thou wide slots into some stainless steel burner nozzles. I can leave this setup and just do the nozzles as they are called off.

                              Sieg also do the tiny small C0 lathe, similar to a Unimat and this sells well with some people but they also do a CNC version.
                              Then I saw this I thought it was pure novelty and not much use but this little machine outsells all the manual machines into Japan.

                              Most of the Japanese users are flat based, have no room for workshops and just choose projects that fit their envelope, hence the popularity of a machine that probably will not sell outside Japan in any numbers.

                              We take the CNC KX1 and KX3 machines to shows, we always get people coming up to us over the small KX1 sating it's too big, is there anything smaller.
                              Same applies with the larger KX3, it's too small is there anything larger ?

                              There is no one size fits all.

                              Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by macona
                                The big problem I see is the minimum RPM is about 200. Way to fast for anything other than aluminum in horizontal mode. And there will probably be almost no power since it is just the generic PMDC motor with a SCR drive. If it was the brushless motor that they are putting on others it might fare better.
                                looks like you have some room to mess about with pulleys to get the speeds you really want...pulleys look simple enough...and why is tiff moaning about buying an r8 collet set .....i see the thing as an electric power saver the small jobs on this ..and not on the mamouth machines

                                all the best..markj
                                Last edited by aboard_epsilon; 01-05-2012, 08:01 AM.