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  • Circle Cycle Engine

    Folks,

    Since a whole lot of hot gasses have recently been expended (har har) on the subject of perpetual motion engines (which this is not, by the way), I thought I might stir things up a bit further.

    I found this link recently at the indispensable Kneeslider site:

    http://www.circlecycleice.com/

    As you can see, it's for an internal combustion engine using an interesting non-reciprocating, rotating gear which has fixed pistons mounted on the outside circumference of the central gear. As the gear wheel rotates, the pistons and opposing cylinders are brought together, inducing combustion.
    Can be run on a variety of fuels, with spark ignition or diesel.

    In your opinion, is this an efficient design? By efficient, let me define my terms as I understand them (this may not be the proper engineering usage of these terms in technical language):

    I am talking about essentially two things: One, getting the maximum power output from a given fuel/air charge. That is, releasing the largest amount of calories from the potential maximum that is fundamentally locked within the chemical bonds of the fuel, by causing it to oxidize - and therefore expand, and therefore create power.

    Two, efficiency in the transference of this power through the mechanism of the engine and ultimately to the output shaft, to drive a wheel or propeller or what have you. That is, minimal heat loss/frictional loss through the intervening pieces of metal.

    Notice that this design has no gearbox, crankshaft, water pump and other related hardware, so those losses are minimized. Seems pretty nifty to me, and it looks straightforward enough that it would make a doable project for some of you talented engine makers out there.

    Your thoughts?

  • #2
    That's interesting but I can see some issues when the gear train wears and the pistons don't line up going into the cylinders. It would be hard to keep the noise of combustion down too.
    It's only ink and paper

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't say I looked at it closely, ... but how does the fuel get into the cylinders?

      Can you imagine what happens if any of those gears lose a tooth??! It would make you look back fondly on your last timing chain failure!

      Comment


      • #4
        My thoughts -------- hmmm - I think I rode one of those at the circus when I was a kid and now they made an engine out of it --- circus cycle engine - does have a nice ring to it but so does the ho-bo motor

        here's my real thoughts --- thermal efficiency is junk --- mechanical efficiency not much better.

        one of the biggest misconceptions about the IC piston engines is that it's reciprocating pistons are wasting copious amounts of energies just because they reciprocate --- but it's not true - they actually give back every bit of kinetic energies ( minus bearing load friction and small amounts of elasticity) that they take to get moving when they have to slow down and stop --- from 1 to 89 degree's the piston takes energies from the crank to get going, at 90 degree's the piston is moving at maximum ft per second but from 91 degrees crank angle to 179 the piston is giving this energy back to the crankshaft -- and repeat from BDC all the way to TDC,,
        there's a reason why their still around today and ain't going nowhere anytime soon,
        there's a reason why they can be twisted to 20,000 RPM's -- they are a thing of beauty and all this hoopla about rotary power is just that --- the piston engine is a marvel...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tony Ennis
          Can you imagine what happens if any of those gears lose a tooth??! It would make you look back fondly on your last timing chain failure!

          very well said - lol

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, that made me laugh anyway. But I don't expect to see that one in production at any time.
            I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

            Comment


            • #7
              "Non-reciprocating"?

              If it's got cylinders and pistons it's reciprocating and that thing has both cylinders and pistons
              Last edited by wierdscience; 01-16-2012, 12:00 AM.
              I just need one more tool,just one!

              Comment


              • #8
                It's also not clear to me about valves, or if there is a consideration for variable valve timing. I suspect it would be most useful in a steady-state application where timing is less of an issue.

                Yeah, I thought about the idea of breaking a tooth on the gear. Maybe a slipper clutch arrangement in the central flywheel, to let the whole thing spin down without exploding if it gets out of whack?

                Don't get me wrong, I like piston engines. Hell, I'm just beginning to understand them.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think this thing will run long enough to break a tooth off of one of the gears. All it will take is a bit of wear and backlash in the gear train and the piston & cylinder will no longer line up properly.

                  Where does the intake air come from? Where does the exhaust gas go?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That's quite the orgy of internal combustion. I thought this was a family friendly site, and you couldn't post stuff like that!
                    I'm here hoping to advancify my smartitude.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer
                      My thoughts -------- hmmm - I think I rode one of those at the circus when I was a kid and now they made an engine out of it --- circus cycle engine - does have a nice ring to it but so does the ho-bo motor

                      here's my real thoughts --- thermal efficiency is junk --- mechanical efficiency not much better.

                      one of the biggest misconceptions about the IC piston engines is that it's reciprocating pistons are wasting copious amounts of energies just because they reciprocate --- but it's not true - they actually give back every bit of kinetic energies ( minus bearing load friction and small amounts of elasticity) that they take to get moving when they have to slow down and stop --- from 1 to 89 degree's the piston takes energies from the crank to get going, at 90 degree's the piston is moving at maximum ft per second but from 91 degrees crank angle to 179 the piston is giving this energy back to the crankshaft -- and repeat from BDC all the way to TDC,,
                      there's a reason why their still around today and ain't going nowhere anytime soon,
                      there's a reason why they can be twisted to 20,000 RPM's -- they are a thing of beauty and all this hoopla about rotary power is just that --- the piston engine is a marvel...
                      You're incorrect about the point of maximum piston velocity. Have a look through this site for an explanation.

                      http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...ion_basics.htm
                      Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Totally ----- was just trying to keep things basic and there's no way in hell I was going to throw that kind of geometry into the mix to get my point across...

                        the fact is is that it's all equal --- even if the piston is getting accelerated slower from TDC due to the rod angle the energies are being returned at a quicker rate "per degree" (ie more loading but less time) at BDC

                        and even if one tried to argue against this fact - the loading factor "flip flops" from BDC to TDC --- the piston accelerates faster degree wise from BDC and then gets slowed down with less load but more time directly in proportion to the amount of energy expended to get it moving - minus bearing frictional losses and elasticity of parts and probably some piston skirt drag...

                        Long connecting rods keep this effect to a minimum - and short ones greatly enhance it, but the energy return is identical except for maybe just a little more piston skirt drag the shorter the rod..
                        Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 01-16-2012, 10:09 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by grannygear
                          It's also not clear to me about valves, or if there is a consideration for variable valve timing. I suspect it would be most useful in a steady-state application where timing is less of an issue.

                          .

                          I would not think there be a need for valves if the piston is totally leaving it's bore --- it must therefore be a two stroke - the exhaust is just vented when the piston leaves its bore, and the intake charge is automatically introduced - fuel has to be direct injection --- seen allot of crazyness but this one takes the cake,
                          me thinks stand back - stand way back

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not only is it reciprocating, if I understand this correctly, the cylinders are taking in air and exhausting directly from/into the crankcase. That would likely be a big reason why they are running it on propane in the video. I do not see this engine running very long, nor being very efficient
                            "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I see nothing wrong with this, it is an excellent design, if you trying to win a Rube Goldberg contest.

                              Comment

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