What the heck are these things?

[J. Randall]

Yeah stones sucked - that's what I learned on - you would have to true them up every other time and they were constantly loading up with material and on and on - they also wore out their own pilots and guides from all the abrasives flying about and they would chatter from the higher rpm grinder tool you "capped" them with,

that really was not all that long ago - the reason I bring up stones being caught in the middle is because the neway cutters came out while stones were still being used as the only way to cut seats that iv ever seen at the time - so these old cutters must be just that - really old and maybe before stones or while both were being used and then the stones took over for a period...

You and Joe both had a different experience than I, maybe we were using a different brand of equipment, but I never had the trouble being described and I did a lot of heads back in the day. As a matter of coarse I always put a light dress on any stone I used even if it was brand new. Never had any chatter problems, and was always well satisfied with the finish. Dressed my own angles on stones to raise and lower seats, and get the width seat I wanted. Mandrels and guides did wear out eventually, but they were replaceable.
James

[nitsuj]

They are handy & I have a valve & seat grinder, actually 2 sets but not this size. What would you want for them?

I didn't know what they were until you guys told me yesterday, so I have no idea what to ask.

[A.K. Boomer]

AK.......... I don't think anything predates stones. They were the first.
I remember as a kid, my uncle owned a service station and I can remember him grinding valve seats with tapered stone cones. Now that I'm older and smarter????? I can see where stones were really crude and how poor the accuracy of them would be. Once the stone looses it's angle or a groove becomes worn in it the ground angle of the seat will no longer be accurate.
The end result was poorly sealing valves. cars needed valve jobs every 3000 miles back then... just about.
They old stone ones were usually driven by a what looks like an angle head grinder or buffer. The later machined cutter like the one originally pictured were usually turned by hand with a T handle wrench. The pilot stem kept the cutter square to the seat. Usually just a few turns of the cutter by hand and light preassur was enough to scrape the seat to like new condition.
Some guys still use them.



JL......................

Yeah stones sucked - that's what I learned on - you would have to true them up every other time and they were constantly loading up with material and on and on - they also wore out their own pilots and guides from all the abrasives flying about and they would chatter from the higher rpm grinder tool you "capped" them with,

that really was not all that long ago - the reason I bring up stones being caught in the middle is because the neway cutters came out while stones were still being used as the only way to cut seats that iv ever seen at the time - so these old cutters must be just that - really old and maybe before stones or while both were being used and then the stones took over for a period...

[saltmine]

I recall my old man had a set of cutters like that. They were part of a valve seat refacing set he bought new. It was a "QuickWay" refacing set and the hand-held motor for the grinding stones was a "long nose" model for grinding valve seats on radial aircraft engine valve seats...In the day, many air cooled aircraft engines used an integral cylinder head & cylinder to eliminate blown head gaskets. Of course, the 'ol man didn't use it for aircraft engines....He used to do valve jobs on Meyer-Drake Offenhauser four cylinder engines, for the midget racers in the area. But I do remember the seat cutters well. I once caught hell for trying to use one in a power tool. The 'ol man told me those are hand seat cutters, not power seat cutters. If memory serves, I think the long nose grinder was also useful for doing Crosley engine valve seats.

[Void]

Yep those are old style Sioux valve seat cutters. They were fine on cast iron or bronze valve seats for "tulip" style valves.

A modern variant is the Neway carbide valve seat cutters. http://www.newayts.com.au/seatguiderest.htm
Which work fine on modern valve seats with hardened inserts. When I worked on cars I found the Neway cutter method to be superior to grinding for quick consistent results.

-DU-

[JoeLee]

AK.......... I don't think anything predates stones. They were the first.
I remember as a kid, my uncle owned a service station and I can remember him grinding valve seats with tapered stone cones. Now that I'm older and smarter????? I can see where stones were really crude and how poor the accuracy of them would be. Once the stone looses it's angle or a groove becomes worn in it the ground angle of the seat will no longer be accurate.
The end result was poorly sealing valves. cars needed valve jobs every 3000 miles back then... just about.
They old stone ones were usually driven by a what looks like an angle head grinder or buffer. The later machined cutter like the one originally pictured were usually turned by hand with a T handle wrench. The pilot stem kept the cutter square to the seat. Usually just a few turns of the cutter by hand and light preassur was enough to scrape the seat to like new condition.
Some guys still use them.

JL......................

[Willy]

Yup I've seen and used those before. They worked great on old style engines with soft seat material.
One has to remember that valve seats in these old engines did not use stellite or induction hardened valve seat inserts.

For what they where designed for they work well. Although pretty much useless for use on modern engines they are still available from several sources.
http://www.garvintools.com/index.cfm...&ProductID=298

http://lprtoolmakers.auctivacommerce...--P299137.aspx

[A.K. Boomer]

Wow - iv never seen anything pre-date stones for cutting seats - those things look very crude and im not sure how their "driven"?

Souix is a company that has been making valve and seat grinding/cutting equipment almost ever since engines have been around.

That is such a flawed design to begin with due to all the cutting area (low unit pressures) and all the cutters being the same amount of degree's from each other - they end up setting up a pattern and amplifying it,

If these were the first style cutters then it's kinda neat to see the transition from cutters to stones back to cutters again - except the newer cutters rock, there are usually only three or five of them - they are carbide to handle the newer tougher seat material and they are offset in degree's so they don't set up a pattern (even though u turn them by hand)

[JoeLee]

I think prior to these I believe the seat cutters were actual grinding stones??

JL...............

[flylo]

They are handy & I have a valve & seat grinder, actually 2 sets but not this size. What would you want for them?

[Don Young]

They are definitely hand operated valve seat cutters or 'reamers'. They used to be quite common in shops doing engine repair. There are mandrels with different size pilots that go with them. They came in a variety of angles and diameters for cutting and narrowing the seats.

[JoeLee]

Here is a set of them on ebay........

Item #290671464923

JL.......................

[Forrest Addy]

Yup. ICE (internal combustion engine) valve seat cutters. Ream the seat to clean up, then lap the valve to it. No intersection seating or other fripperies. Cone against cone. Used to be a an aftermarket kit for Model A and T Ford owners back in the day. I've seen them in pretty large sizes for natural gas and marine gasoline engines. I can't recall exactly but I'd guess the larger cutters were 6" or so. Pretty big engines.

I think they also used a variety of early aircraft engines where the seats were aluminum bronze in aluminum heads. Old technology. Those old cutters would just rub on a stellite seat.

[nitsuj]

Hmm, they do look similar to the cutters Joelee posted pictures of. We may have solved this. So, they're pretty much useless to me then. ;-) I was hoping someone was going to say "oh yeah, I know what those are. They're darn handy to have."

No such luck!

[sasquatch]

The "45" probably refers to 45 degrees, which could be engine valves,, possibly valves maybe in a stationary flywheel engines, more so than auto engines.?