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  • #31
    Originally posted by saltmine
    The infamous Gotham Hobby "Deezil" you had as a kid didn't run mainly because the designer and builders originally produced very poor quality engines. One thing that kept many from running was the cylinder flange was brazed onto the cylinder, which was simply an appropriately sized piece of tubing.
    High internal friction also plagued most of them, even after endless sessions of hand cranking. BTW, "Deezil" is also the dubious name of a "Southern Hip-Hop, Rap Group"....That alone would be grounds for not running.
    Gotham was also the name of a prominent New York Insane Asylum. Several original "Deezil" engines have been successfully been made to run, but only by starting with a basic "casting kit" and machining everything from modern materials with proper precision.

    Here's the link. It's apparently working now. It appears that few were able to get it to run. IIRC, there were other "model diesels" (small d) sold in that era and later. One was the "Elf". I went to many model contests at that time and saw many of them fly in free flights. Later on, once glow fuel came into use, the diesels were popular because the diesel exhaust would not soften glue like glow fuel did.

    You mean that they had Southern Hip Hop Rap in 1949. Who knew?

    http://modelenginenews.org/deezil/index.html

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Peter S
      Sorry, still not a true Diesel engine. It still ingests a fuel/air mixture right? Thus utterly foreign to Diesel engine principles.




      I checked the link, this is a spark ignition engine (with fuel injection).

      Cheers, Peter
      OOps. Your right. I should have posted this one:

      http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-c.../ys-170dz.html

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      • #33
        Peter S, you will not get much of an argument from me on the points you raised as I tend to believe that everything about the engines of Rudolf Diesel were established practices except the use of high compression and that his application of scientific principles to existing practices is what he should be remembered for.

        Compression ignition, fuel injection, carburation etc etc, none of these things make (or break) a definition of what is a 'diesel engine'. Heck we cant even use the external heat to start as a delimiter unless we want to define all engines with hot plugs as 'non diesel'.

        IMHO of course...
        Last edited by The Artful Bodger; 03-07-2012, 03:27 AM.

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        • #34
          If the configuration of Diesels engine is what makes it a diesel, then others that differ are not diesels. His is a compression ignition engine, like the others, but others are not always diesels. That sounds correct to me.
          I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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          • #35
            I understand Graham Meek is currently working on a 10cc 4-Stroke "True" Diesel engine, he has initially designed the engine to be a compression-ignition engine with a variable compression screw and ingesting its fuel through a carburettor. There is a separate cylinder head with the injector and spherical combustion cell, the fuel pump bolts onto the end of the camshaft. Graham's thinking was that if the "True Diesel" did not work he would still have a conventional modellers "Compression-Ignition" engine.

            Graham got his inspiration from Rex Swensen who published a design in Model Engineer, I also understand that there was a Model Engineer in Australia who built a working "True Diesel", but alas his name escapes me.

            If you want to see some semi-diesels with injectors and injector pumps then visit Finds Hansen's web site I promise you that you will be impressed.

            I also understand that Find's is also working on a "True Diesel" just like Graham.

            Nemesis

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            • #36
              Originally posted by The Artful Bodger
              Peter S, you will not get much of an argument from me on the points you raised as I tend to believe that everything about the engines of Rudolf Diesel were established practices except the use of high compression and that his application of scientific principles to existing practices is what he should be remembered for.

              Compression ignition, fuel injection, carburation etc etc, none of these things make (or break) a definition of what is a 'diesel engine'. Heck we cant even use the external heat to start as a delimiter unless we want to define all engines with hot plugs as 'non diesel'.

              IMHO of course...
              AB,

              It is interesting to read what a long struggle it was for Diesel to develop a high compression engine, it was no small thing. Many years of experimenting and failure by a major established engine building company (M.A.N), not just to achieve high compression in a cylinder but then to inject fuel against that pressure and ignite it. It took about 10 years to become a saleable product.

              Regarding established practices, I don't think anyone else was using compression ignition before Diesel? And I don't think anyone had sucessfully injected fuel against compression even on a low compression engine? These were also wonderful achievements, the only reason for not emphasising them is because they were not the primary reason for the Diesel engine.

              Clevelander,

              It strikes me that Diesel's struggle is not completely off-topic, you might need similar perserverance to make a small diesel engine run too! Best wishes and looking forward to hear how you get on.
              Last edited by Peter S; 03-07-2012, 08:36 AM.

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              • #37
                From an academic point from when I done my Automotive qualifications, vehicle engines fall into two categories, Spark Ignition, and Compression Ignition.
                Petrol/Diesel/LPG/whatever is just what they happen to run on.

                It's possible to run an SI or CI engine on any of those fuels, it's just that most engines are primarily designed around one or two specific fuels.


                The ambiguity of a diesel engine comes from the fact diesel/dieseling can be used to mean other things, such as petrol engine run-on, and that CI model engines are referred to as diesels. It's one of these accepted terms, that although technically wrong, is still used.

                As a side though, I thought Rudolf Deisel's engine was originally designed to run on coal dust, and diesel fuel as we now know it, wasn't around until a long time after his death?

                It's a bit like the term Hotrod, which came from early petrol engines that used hot rods for ignition, yet has no correlation to what later became known as a hotrod.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by M_C
                  As a side though, I thought Rudolf Deisel's engine was originally designed to run on coal dust, and diesel fuel as we now know it, wasn't around until a long time after his death?
                  This is widely held...but incorrect story. The Diesel was designed to run on light oil, e.g Kerosene which was very common (used for lighting). Some tests were done in later years using many different fuels, e.g. coal gas in particular, but also coal dust.

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