Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT: Other auto belts that are stupider than timing belts

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OT: Other auto belts that are stupider than timing belts

    Not quite as damaging as a timing belt failure, but considerably more annoying, ant potentially rather expensive.

    Boss has a Chrysler van.

    It has a long serpentine belt that runs everything under the hood. About 2" wide and 1/4" thick.

    If you drive this vehicle (or any like it) through a puddle of water on the road that splashes up, the belt instantly slips off the pulleys.

    At that point, you have to have it towed, plus pay about $100+ to have the shop put the belt back. Or, if you happen to have the right wrench-type tool with you, and know what to do, you can, by a considerable exertion, get it put back yourself.

    Once put back, it might slip off again in a few minutes.

    Boss has had this happen twice in a few months, and now carries the tool in the van so *when* (not if) it slips off again, it can be put back. Apparently this is a known fault, with set shop prices for replacing the belt on the pulleys.

    What idiot designs the thing that way? How did it possibly not get noticed during vehicle testing?
    Last edited by J Tiers; 03-10-2012, 10:22 AM.
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  • #2
    Crank drive pulley most likely needs a little more flange material - many don't have anything higher than that of the last ridge but where the tensioner is and where the driven components are and all the geometry in between makes a big diff. what a drag... most likely going to be a stiffer auto tensioner for the recall or one that has hydraulics along with spring tensioning or a larger flange on the pulley...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer
      Crank drive pulley most likely needs a little more flange material - many don't have anything higher than that of the last ridge but where the tensioner is and where the driven components are and all the geometry in between makes a big diff. what a drag... most likely going to be a stiffer auto tensioner for the recall or one that has hydraulics along with spring tensioning or a larger flange on the pulley...

      What recall?

      He bought this one used, after the roofing company across the street let their stake bed truck roll back into our parking lot and smash a whole row of cars. His old van was #1 in line, and it got a bit bent.....This is a year or two newer model of what he had before, the insurance company barely gave him enough money to buy this, and he had to fight for that.

      They've been slipping belts for years, apparently, with no action, although there is supposedly a new bracket that improves matters.... but he is told you have to partly pull the engine to install it. I'm not sure if it is a water shield or something to actually guide the belt. Used car people naturally keep very quiet about the problem.

      The idler pulleys have NO flanges, and NO crown. I'm not sure what keeps the belt on in "normal" operation, but apparently it does stay on then.

      I helped him put it back once, and with regular wrenches its a stiff push.
      1601

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan

      Comment


      • #4
        Thats not right, Every vehicle built today has a serp belt and I have yet to see one just slip off.

        Either the tensioner is weak, something is out of alignment, or one of the pulleys is messed up/belt messed up.

        Or it could be just that it is a Chrysler...
        Andy

        Comment


        • #5
          Not all the pulleys especially the idler will have lip or crown to keep the belt on. Normally ONLY the ribbed pulleys will have a crown on the edges to keep the belt aligned.

          Sometimes when a component is going out and getting sloppy it will throw a belt but still rare.

          Was the timing belt ever changed in this van? If it was I will bet money the mechanic that did the belt change messed up on one of the pulleys somewhere. Either put one on backwards or in the wrong spot (which shouldn't be possible but you never know with a dodge).
          Andy

          Comment


          • #6
            Thoughts

            I agree with Andy.
            Something is not quite right with your buddy's vehicle.
            Perhaps too long of a belt...smaller pulley used in past?
            Was vehicle ever crashed?
            Complete motor replacement with junkyard spares on it?
            Look deeper into the cause...
            Report back - I have been wrenching for 25 years and have not seen or heard of this issue.
            Good luck,
            Tom

            Comment


            • #7
              hey.....

              The van is perfect, not crashed, fuggettaboutit.......... it's a known problem, from what boss has heard, and he isn't pleased at all....

              When I looked at it as we put the belt back with it inside the shop.... only one or two pulleys had a rim.... a series of 4 or more at the back of the engine compartment all had no rim, with the belt weaving ina and out among them.

              That was time #1... the next time it did it , he got to put it back in the rain working in the lot at the electrical junkyard in a *wonderful* part of town where teh cops barely want to get out of the cruiser.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Comment


              • #8
                I do like properly designed "single belt drives all" serp. belt drive systems --- there are so many bennies including fuel efficiency.

                Proper tension throughout the belts life.

                One crank drive pulley located right next to the front main bearing reducing friction and bearing wear --- some 3 or even 4 staged crank pulleys have an immense amount of leverage on the crank - and it's all usually being pulled in close to the same directions leading to extra friction and even crank pulleys that fret and loosen after time and just plain fall off... the belt loads are all compounded...

                and although the belt cost more than a single its far cheaper than 3 singles put together,
                there is no doubt that it's the best system if designed well - and it is one area where as far as the Japanese it seems like they were (or still are?) the last to catch on, I have no idea why as they scoop up "practical design" anywhere they can but for some reason they dropped the ball on this one...

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is an issue with certain years of 3.3L and 3.5L Chrysler V-6 engines.
                  Has your boss talked with a knowledgeable Chrysler service department?

                  There are numerous TSBs out on this issue as it does relate to an alignment problem and a factory fix is available.
                  Gates also has an over the counter solution on the market.

                  So many times I witness people struggling and complaining about annoying problems and rather than doing the research and seeking out a solution they learn to live with the problem.

                  But yeah I hear you...sometimes it seems that every new model brings with it a whole new set of issues, almost as if man had never produced a single vehicle before. It seems we must learn all over again with each new revision, even after well over a century of 'refinement'.
                  Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                  Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What are the specifics of the vehicle? I can give you the TSB information to see about the factory fix, and then you get with the dealer to either fix it, or get the parts.
                    Scientists have shown that the moon is moving away at a tiny yet measurable distance from the earth every year. If you do the math, you can calculate that 85 million years ago the moon was orbiting the earth at a distance of about 35 feet from the earth's surface. This would explain the death of the dinosaurs. The tallest ones, anyway.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Had a couple of 3.0L Caravans that would throw the belt if you hit a big pile of snow. The problem was the plastic splash guard below was partly broken away. I added some sheet metal to fill in the missing spot............and the problem went away. There are ribs on those belts that ride in pulley grooves and the tensioner is flat because it rides on the back side of the belt. Those belts are trouble free if set up properly.

                      I made up a special 15MM wrench to get a full bite on that tensioner pulley bolt, after using a regular wrench on the side of the road a couple of times.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J Tiers
                        What idiot designs the thing that way?
                        Summer student

                        How did it possibly not get noticed during vehicle testing?
                        Tested by consumer
                        As others have said, you really need to buy a tried, tested, and true, American car.
                        Mike

                        My Dad always said, "If you want people to do things for you on the farm, you have to buy a machine they can sit on that does most of the work."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You can get a "Kit" from Amazon for about $100.00 or so with a double sided serpentine belt and idlers that have the grooves in them for the serpentine belt to ride in. My 99 Voyager (3.3 engine) did that twice before I decided to order the kit which consists of 2 idlers and tensioner,and belt. I didnt use the tensioner,I just swapped out the idlers,and installed the new belt,and it works fine. It didnt take all that long to change it all out either.

                          http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NBKI7Q/...l_6hvvpi82up_b

                          I could have gotten by with the single sided belt,if I had those pulleys and turned the grooves out of the middle,but my lathe isnt set up in my garage yet,so I just ordered the kit instead. I'll surely have another mopar mini van,and next time I'll find out the pulley number and just turn the ribs out of the middle and run the single sided belt.
                          Last edited by Andrew S. Quinn; 03-10-2012, 04:09 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J Tiers
                            ...
                            When I looked at it as we put the belt back with it inside the shop.... only one or two pulleys had a rim.... a series of 4 or more at the back of the engine compartment all had no rim, with the belt weaving ina and out among them....
                            So am I the only one who thinks "Well then, just add a rim onto a few more pulleys?"

                            I mean, assuming you can find a way to make a reasonabley balanced disk, Or a place to buy bolt on pully flanges (I think they do exist..), then weld or drill/tap it onto whatever pulleys you can pull off the motor without yanking the entire motor out?
                            Or just buy more pulleys with flanges.
                            Last edited by Black_Moons; 03-10-2012, 05:19 PM.
                            Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anyone had the "Joy" of getting the spare tire out from "UNDER" the Chrysler

                              Caravans?

                              The morons have placed the spare tire up under the front seats,--- like they been building cars for over 100 years , this is "good" engineering?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X