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  • M2al Hss?

    Hi,

    Anybody have any experience using this alloy of HSS? Normally I use M42 HSS but cobalt dust from sharpening isn't all that good for you. So I'm looking for alternatives.

    Thanks,
    dalee
    If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

  • #2
    the dust from anything is not all that good for you. Wear breathing protection and vacuum as much of it as you can up.
    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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    • #3
      I seem to remember someone in one of the Bedside Readers suggesting it was the same thing as Stellite, if that's correct it should be pretty good stuff.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Robin R
        I seem to remember someone in one of the Bedside Readers suggesting it was the same thing as Stellite,
        That's not what he says

        Satellite is a high-end cast cobalt alloy. M2AL is a Chinese-specific tool steel alloy.
        "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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        • #5
          'chinese specific tool steel alloy'- in other words it could be like the alloy those drill bits are made of, the ones that you can twist backwards so the flutes go the other way. Not kidding, I've had that happen.

          It's sad when you can take two sticks of HSS, one made in Poland and the other in China- both having the same specification- and one works well while the other dulls quickly in normal use.
          I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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          • #6
            Pays to have a shop vac switch on and draw from the point of operation. Not only keeps the nasty for people dust down but controls the tramp dust that floats everywhere and wears out machinery.

            It may not be in the budget for most people but a dedicated vac at the grinder station is a splendid idea. So is a whole shop overhead ambient air filter that turns on with the lights and shuts off automatically 20 minutes after light off. If you maintain the filters you not reduce settled dust to small proportions but reduce rust as well. Water vapor likes some kinds of dust to nucleate on. No dust no - um - nucleat-ing(?).

            Darryl "...both having the same specification- and one works well while the other dulls quickly in normal use." I've had that experience ten years ago with Enco tool steel - mixed import part Polish part Chinese. The Chinese stuff did not hold an edge well.

            Recently a friend sent me a stick of "honorable tool steel" and for basic M2 spec it held up well - maybe as good as a stick of Rex AA I had handy for comparison purposes. Might be too soon to generize but ya think maybe the Chinese are getting their metallurgy under control? We who have to buy the cheap stuff can always hope.

            Haven't a clue what "al" means in the designation. "Al" in the usual sense refers to aluminum presumably in small controlled quantities for grain refinement or whatever like they use comumbium. Any metallurgists out there?
            Last edited by Forrest Addy; 03-11-2012, 10:12 PM.

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            • #7
              M2 (without the AL) is a good powdered metal tool steel used primarily for broaches. It does not have the high hot hardness that other HSS compounds meant for lathe tools might have.

              I haven't seen nor heard of the M2AL before, but if aluminum is added that can add additional toughness but not likely improve hot hardness.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Forrest Addy
                Haven't a clue what "al" means in the designation. "Al" in the usual sense refers to aluminum presumably in small controlled quantities for grain refinement or whatever like they use comumbium. Any metallurgists out there?
                Aluminum, in very small percentages, is used in the melt to absorb any oxygen which may be present, particularly when using a lot of recycled materials - rusty old autobodies, POS bridgeports, etc. What doesn't slag off the melt results in a small amount of Al2O3 in the matrix.

                Columbium is typically used in conjunction with Niobium to improve high temperature resistance, when not employing Cobalt.
                Last edited by bob_s; 03-12-2012, 02:31 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Black_Moons
                  the dust from anything is not all that good for you. Wear breathing protection and vacuum as much of it as you can up.
                  Hi,

                  Probably not going to happen. The Darax is 5' from my left arm and 3 of use use it is pretty much constantly in use over the course of the day. I would need to wear a mask 8+ hours a day.

                  Perhaps a spot dust collection system can be devised that is effective without adding too much more noise to the shop. I already need to listen to 3 mills, 2 Blanchard's, and 4 radial drills. Or maybe I might not even hear it.

                  I think the M2AL isn't going to happen. I can't find the sizes I need, 3/4" dia x 3" and 4 1/2" LOC. It would be pretty hard to be as good as the Hanita's I use now in any case.

                  dalee
                  If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

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                  • #10
                    Put it on roller and take it outside for heavy grinding of HSS?
                    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                    • #11
                      I met a machinist that had to give up the trade as he developed a severe allergy to cobalt.

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