[Measurment frackery] What we have here is a failure of humanity...

[Grind Hard]

So I'm assisting QC today as one of the techs called in. Not a big deal, most of our stuff is fairly simple.

I'm doing my rounds, I got my Steel Rule Of Official Standing, and my QC Vetted Dial Calipers Of Justice along with my Final Word 90 Degree Square and the Protractor Of Humiliation.

For the most part things run good here. But there is always one.

I pick up a part off the table, it is a simple bracket that first gets laser-cut, then a part-number stamped in it, then it gets tapped, then a "PEM-Nut" goes in it, and a "special hardware" item goes in the other hole. Finally it gets bent 90 degrees in a press-brake.


Look at the print, look at the part... measure measure measure... 1 and 9/32nd, I forget the tolerance. They were RIGHT ON THE EDGE Of being no good. Company policy is to run mid-tolerance not at the high or low end.

Ok no big deal... measure them... running a bit large.

Tell the operator "Print calls for 1 9/32nd. You're running at 1 11/32nds can you dial it back a bit?"

Operator says "9/32nds? What's that in inches, boy?"

I say "9/32nds."

He says "Enough fooling, I don't do metric and I'm not converting. Inches please and thank you."

I say "9/32nds. Nine over Thirty Two."

This evolves into an ARGUMENT. WHAT IS IT IN INCHES!

...I call my supervisor over, he measures it... agrees that it's a bit big dial it back to 1 9/32nds.

Operator is off again ranting and raving about the metric system, how he has decades of experiences with INCHES and DECIMALS and REFUSES TO WORK IN METRIC AND HE AIN'T GOING TO CONVERT NOTHING 'CAUSE THAT AIN'T HIS JOB.


*sigh*

We get the plant manager over. He says "Roy, make the parts one and a quarter inch."

This sets off a tirade FROM THE OPERATOR who proceeds to tell me and my supervisor how STUPID we were all he wanted was the answer in INCHES not METRIC blah blah blah we wasted a half hour when the answer was a quarter inch.


...


The machine trades do not attract alcoholics, they MAKE you alcoholic.

Anyway, we had a meeting about this... someone (not me) will be reassigned to a less taxing position tomorrow in the tumble-deburr area for a week. I was told that these parts are "wide open" the customer isn't that picky that's why the print is in fractions not decimals, and in the future for this part 1 and 1/4 is good enough.


*facepalm* *headdesk*

All I can do is laugh. Tomorrow I'll be back in my area doing my thing and all will be well.

[oldtiffie]

Once an inch (say a fraction) is in decimal form (say 1 1 /4 = 1.250") it is no different to a metric measurement as they are in decimal form from the word go.

Its just a matter of which decimal form you choose to use.

[Grind Hard]

Great idea. Thank you.

However I think this would have turned into an Issue no matter what, some people are just nuts and I am a Bastard. Says so right in my name.

[aboard_epsilon]

Great idea. Thank you.

However I think this would have turned into an Issue no matter what, some people are just nuts and I am a Bastard. Says so right in my name.

nut ..i wouldnt say he was nuts ..i would say he's a remedial .

and he's keeping a good man out of a job

I'd swap him with the floor sweeper ..

all the best.markj

[Black_Moons]

Hahaha. Thats a good one... Boy needs to be smacked upside the head with a meter stick if he thinks 32nds mean metric

I bet if someone actually sat him down, told him that metric means... that they never use those annoying 11/32nd fractions, he would said "Well why the hell am I working in imperial then!"

Good news is Canada and USA switched to metric long ago!... Honest! Our governments declared it so!

[Weston Bye]

......I'd swap him with the floor sweeper ..

.markj

Floor sweeper? What's that? Where I work, our production people clean their own work areas at the end of the shift. Keep it clean and there is less to sweep later. The engineering areas fare a little better, as cleaners come in the night a couple days a week.

Bastard's coworker wouldn't last an hour in our plant. Everything is Metric....
except me. I design and machine in decimal. They tolerate me due to age and results.

[Grind Hard]

I can think in both metric and "standard units", when I have to I push the metric mode button on the machine, make my parts then switch back to inches. Really the technology is there so you don't have to convert.

The one time I forgot to switch modes we ended up with a pile of scrap because I left the back-gauge in CM not IN on the shear.

[rkepler]

Hahaha. Thats a good one... Boy needs to be smacked upside the head with a meter stick if he thinks 32nds mean metric

Yeah. Everyone knows that they're 25.4ths. 1mm=1/24.5 of an inch.

[oldtiffie]

Nope.

1mm = 1/25.4" (not 1/24.5")

Of course we all knew it was a "typo"

[Black_Moons]

Yeah. Everyone knows that they're 25.4ths. 1mm=1/24.5 of an inch.

Hahaha, Grind bastard, You simply MUST give that guy his next blueprint calling off dimensions in /25'ths, Just to watch his head explode.
(That said, working in /25ths sure would be easier in decimal then 32ths!)

[oldtiffie]

................................................
I pick up a part off the table, it is a simple bracket that first gets laser-cut, then a part-number stamped in it, then it gets tapped, then a "PEM-Nut" goes in it, and a "special hardware" item goes in the other hole. Finally it gets bent 90 degrees in a press-brake.


Look at the print, look at the part... measure measure measure... 1 and 9/32nd, I forget the tolerance. They were RIGHT ON THE EDGE Of being no good. Company policy is to run mid-tolerance not at the high or low end.

Ok no big deal... measure them... running a bit large.

Tell the operator "Print calls for 1 9/32nd. You're running at 1 11/32nds can you dial it back a bit?"

Operator says "9/32nds? What's that in inches, boy?"

I say "9/32nds."

He says "Enough fooling, I don't do metric and I'm not converting. Inches please and thank you."

I say "9/32nds. Nine over Thirty Two."

This evolves into an ARGUMENT. WHAT IS IT IN INCHES!

...I call my supervisor over, he measures it... agrees that it's a bit big dial it back to 1 9/32nds.

.

I forget the tolerance. They were RIGHT ON THE EDGE Of being no good. Company policy is to run mid-tolerance not at the high or low end.

The Company is at fault here as the tolerance/limits should be "tightened up" to be realistic and acceptable. The Machinist was correct if he did not go outside the tolerance/limits on the drawing he was working to.

[Grind Hard]

Wrong.

COMPANY POLICY is not to run at the high or low end of a tolerance, COMPANY POLICY is to run parts "mid tolerance" that is as close to the actual dimension as possible.

This person KNOWS this he's been here long enough. The tolerance is NOT the issue, the fact that he can't grasp basic fractions or differentiate between fractions and metric is the point of the conversation.

If the print says .060 +/-5 .005 we try to run as close to .060 as possible, not .055 or .065.

Think of it another way. If I'm running at .065, and there is an upset (say gas-pressure to the laser fluctuates) now I am running scrap. If I had been closer to .060 (say .063) that variation may not have caused scrap.

With our equipment, tooling and experienced workers we pull this off in almost all situations.

[Arcane]

You got to admit, nobody could make up a story like that out of thin air. One again it's proven that truth is indeed stranger than fiction! I wonder what he would say about calipers that read out in metric, decimal inch, and fractional inch? http://www.marathonwatch.com/product...r-fractions_1/

[Oldbrock]

Does the operator leave knuckle tracks behind him when he walks? If so, that could explain it. Peter

[oldtiffie]

Wrong.

COMPANY POLICY is not to run at the high or low end of a tolerance, COMPANY POLICY is to run parts "mid tolerance" that is as close to the actual dimension as possible.

This person KNOWS this he's been here long enough. The tolerance is NOT the issue, the fact that he can't grasp basic fractions or differentiate between fractions and metric is the point of the conversation.

If the print says .060 +/-5 .005 we try to run as close to .060 as possible, not .055 or .065.

Think of it another way. If I'm running at .065, and there is an upset (say gas-pressure to the laser fluctuates) now I am running scrap. If I had been closer to .060 (say .063) that variation may not have caused scrap.

With our equipment, tooling and experienced workers we pull this off in almost all situations.

As close as possible to the mid size suggests a mid-range set of limits that the machinst has to achieve that is not documented.

Are all dimension +/- the same amount?

Tolerances are usually part of the design phase (from Limits and Fits tables and the like) but as the machinist is dealing in decimals (all mills are calibrated in decimals) the designer/draftsman should provide the actual limits (in decimal) that the machinist is to keep within. The machinist should not have to "work it out".

I can understand him getting pissed off if sizes are given fractions and he has to convert them to decimal - the more so if the nominal size - and even the tolerances are given in fraction as well as he then has two conversions to get the limits he needs as he has to convert both the fractional nominal size and the fractional tolerance or limits to decimal to work out his limits and then work out the mid-range of the limits - all in decimal.