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(OT) RIP: Ferdinand Alexander Porsche

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  • (OT) RIP: Ferdinand Alexander Porsche

    "For a rich kid kicked out of design school, Ferdinand Alexander Porsche created one of the greatest legacies in automotive design with the Porsche 911 — one that will survive far beyond Porsche's death today at the age of 76."


    http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...194330668.html

  • #2
    Originally posted by tlfamm
    "For a rich kid kicked out of design school, Ferdinand Alexander Porsche created one of the greatest legacies in automotive design with the Porsche 911 — one that will survive far beyond Porsche's death today at the age of 76."


    http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...194330668.html
    Einstein flunked math class more than once.

    Pops

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    • #3
      Actually that's a common misconception. Einstein was a exceptional student well aware of his own mental gifts at a young age. By the age of 10 or 11 his college student tutors were telling his parents that he was beyond them in capability.
      James Kilroy

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      • #4
        Maybe he was "kicked out of design school", but being the son of the owner of the company might have had a bit of an effect on his success.

        Just sayin'.
        Jim H.

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        • #5
          I guess iv always had those two backwards - I thought Ferry was the kid,

          It takes big balls to drive a 911 fast through the twisties,,, they will lay it down if you know how to work them but way too much oversteer for my liking.

          Iv worked on my fair share of those cars and never really liked them - they really had some heavy duty engineering problemo's, I admired the pains they went through to pull just a little extra ponies here and there - and then I thought they were hillbillies for throwing it all away by pushing their cooling fan that robbed something like 14hp's @ 6,500rpms,,, and it's not like they were saving weight in coolant cuz they were hauling around OVER 3 gallons of oil, just backasswards - then finally in 2000 the big announcement --- Ladies and Gentleman - we've water cooled the 911,,, ahhh bravo my dear Ferdinand Bravo

          oh well - rest in peace ole chap - thanks for creating such a mess for such along time - you really helped to feed my face and I appreciate it - really - thanks Ferdie... RIP

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jkilroy
            Actually that's a common misconception. Einstein was a exceptional student well aware of his own mental gifts at a young age. By the age of 10 or 11 his college student tutors were telling his parents that he was beyond them in capability.
            I've now done my research and stand corrected. Thank you.

            Pops

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by A.K. Boomer
              It takes big balls to drive a 911 fast through the twisties,,, they will lay it down if you know how to work them but way too much oversteer for my liking.

              Iv worked on my fair share of those cars and never really liked them - they really had some heavy duty engineering problemo's, I admired the pains they went through to pull just a little extra ponies here and there - and then I thought they were hillbillies for throwing it all away by pushing their cooling fan that robbed something like 14hp's @ 6,500rpms,,, and it's not like they were saving weight in coolant cuz they were hauling around OVER 3 gallons of oil, just backasswards - then finally in 2000 the big announcement --- Ladies and Gentleman - we've water cooled the 911,,, ahhh bravo my dear Ferdinand Bravo

              oh well - rest in peace ole chap - thanks for creating such a mess for such along time - you really helped to feed my face and I appreciate it - really - thanks Ferdie... RIP
              perhaps you have made a mistaken assumption here........

              "Design firm" means the folks in charge of the OUTSIDE SKIN..... the "LOOK". Used to be the "clay shop" at the car makers.

              The inside issues would be the responsibility of those fussy German engineers........ You must talk to THEM about the details of the workings...... which they had to squeeze into the envelope that teh "design" folks gave them.

              So once you lift the hood, or open something in the passenger area, you are exiting the area which FAP or his design firm would be responsible for.
              2730

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Everything not impossible is compulsory

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              • #8
                I have had many years of pleasure in those cars...nine* of 'em from various years from my '58 356 to my last '89 911. Drove them hard, had wind screen wipers installed on the side windows for all that sideways stuff in the rain. Of all of them I cherished my '73 RS the most.

                * before you get the idea that I am wealthy: Porsches are the consumate poser car. There are frequently good ones for sale at distressed prices. Buy wisely, put them up for sale at 3-5,000 more and bide your time. All nine of those cars, including a racer, put me back a total of $1,400 over seven years. including all costs and finance when needed. Beat that with a Corolla!

                Ferry did some ground breaking work in the day, especially early on. While the cars were always a monument to compromise (pedal position, cooling, aft engine, balance strategies like front batteries etc), they were always something special.

                Greg
                Last edited by Greg Q; 04-06-2012, 12:00 AM. Reason: Spelling

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                • #9
                  "Prices has went up".

                  An old 911 project car I saw at an estate sale went online for over 15 grand..... Not sure of year, but it was early

                  Engine was on the garage floor, trim missing, interior needed redone, and seats were sitting in corner. Rust on body..... basically in boxes and rusty.

                  Absolutely NO guarantee all the bits and pieces were there at all, let alone in any restorable condition.
                  2730

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

                  Everything not impossible is compulsory

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That might just be "project fever" though. To which we all succumb from time to time, be it cars, machine tools, airplanes, boats, etc etc.

                    I have noticed that projects will often fetch so high a fraction of a running car that people value their time at -$20/hr. that is, they are going to pay $20 an hour for the priveledge of long frustrating hours chasing parts, fixing defects etc

                    I have rebuilt three Porsche 911 motors and a 356. Total rebuilds, zero-timing every rotating component. It is a non-trivial exercise time-wise. The last time Imdid one was 1996, and I am pretty sure it coat me at least $4,000 in just gaskets, a crankshaft and rings. No machine shop or head work.* The rest of the car is just a big lego toy...everything bolts on easily with a basic metric tool set and some metric hex sockets. Maybe a craftsman magnetic protractor for serting swing arm angles. The engine/gearbox goes in or out in less than two hours.

                    * shop rebuilds were $14,000 plus at the time.

                    Rust means pre1974 (I think...its been awhile). Rust, real rust I mean, would be a deal breaker for me unless I could get the car for 15k under its common running value. But then I have had my fill of rust in my previous salt-belt life
                    Last edited by Greg Q; 04-06-2012, 02:53 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Greg Q
                      That might just be "project fever" though. To which we all succumb from time to time, be it cars, machine tools, airplanes, boats, etc etc.
                      ..............................
                      Rust means pre1974 (I think...its been awhile). Rust, real rust I mean, would be a deal breaker for me unless I could get the car for 15k under its common running value. But then I have had my fill of rust in my previous salt-belt life
                      I suppose "project in boxes" might mean that DIS-assembly is already done, which can be a very significant advantage... especially with a vehicle. You can pretty much start restoration work with a fairly "known quantity"..... no really hidden surprises, as long as you get all the boxes, and actually take advantage of the situation... actually DO look at what is there and what condition it is in.

                      This one had bad paint and a "surface rust" that would take a lot of prep, plus some actual rusted-through spots, IIRC around the front cover.

                      But it may have been a first year car.
                      2730

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Everything not impossible is compulsory

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Greg Q
                        Rust means pre1974 (I think...its been awhile). Rust, real rust I mean, would be a deal breaker for me unless I could get the car for 15k under its common running value. But then I have had my fill of rust in my previous salt-belt life


                        Totally agree - I hate rust with a passion - im originally from Mich. where you had to use the next size smaller MM wrench on cars that were just a couple years old --- Iv watched people shift their cars - seen their own foot depress the clutch pedal and everything and yet they had their doors shut!

                        I don't care what price - it's not worth it - everything is junk and it even gets to the aluminum.


                        Some of the positives I remember about the 911 is the refinement of the opposed 6, very very smooth both in power strokes and dynamic balance,
                        I also liked the needle roller bearing thrust washer on the helical load side of 5th gear,,, nice touch for high speed cruising,
                        The Cam gear increment adjuster's and how you could dial in your own "brew" for where you want your power to come on --- now of course VVT has made that all obsolete but still - they along with ferrari and others were thinking about the performance oriented driver/owner.

                        There flaws are too many to list --- they had so many issues - working on porsche's was like working on a series of afterthoughts stacked on top of afterthoughts, Being a wrench that has worked on everything on the planet I have no idea why the phrase "german engineering" was ever used as an actual selling point - there are some exceptions but overall in my opinion it's something someone would want to run and try and get away from... kinda like "thanks for the warning"...

                        For the most part it seemed like the Krouts took great pride in sabotaging their own work...

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                        • #13
                          I agree with your assesment of some of the engineering, but the car taken as a whole just worked. And engineering excellence would have been a relative thing...compared to the Italian or British cars of the day the Porsche was genius.

                          That garage sale car, if that early, would have had rust in the torsion bar tubes and suspension mounting points too. And battery boxes, and so on. Plus the short wheel base and two litre engine of the first generation which made them less fun than the post 68 cars.

                          Greg

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                          • #14
                            This kinda explains the mix-up --- I actually did have it right --- Ferry was the kid - to another Ferdinand, and Ferry named his kid Ferdinand, but Ferry's name was actually Ferdinand too - but everyone called him Ferry - I don't know why and I really don't need to know why, it just is what it is...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Greg Q
                              compared to the Italian or British cars of the day the Porsche was genius.


                              I would not call collapsing your hydraulic cam chain tensioners which would then result in wrapping the cam chain around the crank and then snapping off the cam's from their mounts and then taking out the engine block "genius" on any car, even the worst of the worst (the britts) didn't pull crap like that.

                              And just because the ambient temps dropped below 0 degree's F?, how cold does germany get anyways?

                              Back in that era Porsche's were a combination of extreme effort in some area's coupled with totally dropping the ball - they are the exact opposite of "practical",
                              If they were in art class you would have to give them an "A" for effort --- but the end result scoring of trying to paint something with your feet would have to be considered also --- basically a mess...
                              Anotherwords, wow great effort - but your not going to make me hang that POS on my wall are you?

                              No stranger here to the 911 Greg - it's been many many years since Iv had to suffer under one of those pigs but the emotional scars still remain...

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