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Help a Noob. B'ham CT-1440G

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  • Help a Noob. B'ham CT-1440G

    Hello, been lurking quite a bit over the last few months. I was looking for a used lathe and doing research here and other sites on different lathes that were available in my area.

    I finally got a great deal on a used Birmingham CT-1440G. Quite and upgrade from my old Atlas 10F-28.

    I finally got it hooked up this past weekend and tried to start it. I plugged it in, pushed the green button, the power light lit up and it started a slight humming, I turned the run button on and it ran for about 10-15 seconds in the correct direction and stopped.

    I found the breaker tripped in the garage breaker box, reset it, and tried again. This time it lit up after pushing the green button and was humming slightly louder, but when I turned the run switch on the light went out and nothing. After a few seconds I noticed an odor. I opened the control box and the smoke started drifting out.

    The original owner has misplaced the owners manual, so I am trying to locate a manual or wiring diagram. It is the B'ham CT-1440G Mfg in Taiwan in 2011. It is 220v 1 phase 2 hp motor. I have contacted the Mfg and 3 other distributors, no one has a manual. I've been looking online for several weeks now and have not located a manual.

    Before trying to start it I checked the spindle, it turned freely. Also the feed and cross feed were in neutral. It started up and ran in the correct direction. I'll try to pull it out from the wall so that I can get to the control box this weekend. Maybe I can start testing.

    Any thoughts on what might have failed or why? Where is the best place to look for parts? Any ideas on how to test a relay? I know how to test the capacitors or transformer. I'll double check my wiring. I'm no electrician but I did build my own rotary phase converter about 10years ago with a capacitor, 3 phase motor and a couple of swithes. Been running my Reid #2 6X18 surface grinder for years with no problems.

    Sorry for the long post,
    CC

  • #2
    Bet your motor blew a capacitor. Maybe the start switch. Open its side covers and see if either capacitor looks like it was the recent source of the bad smell.

    May still be the centrifugal start switch if the cap is blown, btw. If its stuck (welded contacts, happens, just pry it open). Motor should be easy to take apart, just be very careful not to damage the wires
    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

    Comment


    • #3
      Start capacitor

      Originally posted by Black_Moons
      Bet your motor blew a capacitor.
      Wouldn't the motor capacitor be located on the motor? The smoke came from the control panel on the back of the gear head. The motor is mounted a couple of feet below in the cabinet. Sorry to question, I'm not familiar with the new technology with relays, transformers, etc.

      thanks,
      CC

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by customcutter
        Wouldn't the motor capacitor be located on the motor? The smoke came from the control panel on the back of the gear head. The motor is mounted a couple of feet below in the cabinet. Sorry to question, I'm not familiar with the new technology with relays, transformers, etc.

        thanks,
        CC
        Sounds like a relay or related component has blown. Take a look to see if you can find any damage, just make sure the power is OFF. You may have to bite the bullet and have an electrician look at the lathe. Just find one who needs some machining so you can do a trade.

        I'd also contact more distributors. Someone out there must have a manual for these lathes.

        Comment


        • #5
          Safety first

          Originally posted by Dr Stan
          Sounds like a relay or related component has blown. Take a look to see if you can find any damage, just make sure the power is OFF. You may have to bite the bullet and have an electrician look at the lathe. Just find one who needs some machining so you can do a trade.

          I'd also contact more distributors. Someone out there must have a manual for these lathes.
          Thanks for the safety reminder. After 33 years in the mining industry, SAFETY first. I actually had the breaker turned off the first time I tried to start it, took me a second to realize it.

          I contacted American Tools, they refered me to Alan at CPTools (the main importer from what I understand). No joy. Then I tried Matt at Quality tools, again no joy. I'm hoping the original owner will do another search this weekend and be able to locate them.

          I did find a You tube video on testing relays (DC). Then another google search showed a simple test circuit for testing AC relays.

          My main concern it what caused it to fail and not blowing more parts.

          thanks for the reply,
          CC

          Comment


          • #6
            I had a similar issue...

            On my lathe (which was almost new at the time)...the start winding in the motor failed. One way to check this issue it to turn on the motor and give the chuck a spin (need I say carefully and with the jaws closed) and see if it the runs. If the start winding doesn't kick in the motor effectively is a locked rotor.
            Allans Rule: Anything worth doing is going to be a pain in the butt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Might be a good check for the centrifugal start switch or stuck contact that Black Moon referred to.

              thanks,
              CC

              Comment


              • #8
                First, I'll state that I am completely unfamiliar with your lathe. That said, sometimes motors do have remote capacitors. A common example is some washing machines.

                Given that your lathe has a box full of other electrical components it's possible that the capacitor is remotely located. Remote location could be used to reduce the overall size of your single phase motor and allow it to fit in an area that might otherwise be occupied by a three phase motor, which has no capacitor.

                As other posters have mentioned, the start windings, a relay or start switch may also be the problem. If the machine was stored for some time it's also possible that a critter (rat, etc.) may have gotten to the internal wires and done some damage causing a short or other issue. The little buggers like to chew on wires to keep their teeth from growing too long.

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://www.machinetoolonline.com/Birminghamct1440g.html
                  Opportunity knocks once, temptation leans on the doorbell.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Remote capacitor/maybe squirrel

                    Originally posted by firbikrhd1
                    First, I'll state that I am completely unfamiliar with your lathe. That said, sometimes motors do have remote capacitors. A common example is some washing machines.

                    Given that your lathe has a box full of other electrical components it's possible that the capacitor is remotely located. Remote location could be used to reduce the overall size of your single phase motor and allow it to fit in an area that might otherwise be occupied by a three phase motor, which has no capacitor.

                    As other posters have mentioned, the start windings, a relay or start switch may also be the problem. If the machine was stored for some time it's also possible that a critter (rat, etc.) may have gotten to the internal wires and done some damage causing a short or other issue. The little buggers like to chew on wires to keep their teeth from growing too long.
                    Thanks for confirming possible remote capacitor issue. Also the lathe did sit on my trailer for a week in the back yard, until I could round up a few people to help with unloading it. Maybe squirrels got into some wiring, I'll look everything over closer before trying to start up again.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, Matt at Quality Tools was the 3rd distributor that I contacted. Mine is an older model and the wiring is different. He was the most help.

                      thanks,
                      CC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FWIW my 12x36 lathe had a transformer with a 24 and 6 vac secondaries in
                        the control box. The 3 contactors were 24v coils but the wiring put the
                        coils across both the 24 and 6 v secondaries in series. The screws on the
                        screw block were side by side, and just by moving the jumper one screw the
                        coils would have seen 24 v instead of 30v. Net result was that after a year
                        or so of running the run contactor coil opened. 6v secondary is only for the pilot lights on the panel. Contactors were Chinese
                        knock offs of a standard Siemens unit. You might eyeball the Griz site, they
                        have pdf of many of the manuals online and one MAY be close to yours if
                        you haven't found a manual yet. I used a download of a griz manual as it
                        was printed much more readably than mine. I was glad I didn't put the
                        lathe parallel to the wall as the control box would have been completely
                        inaccessible.
                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Grizzly G0709

                          Originally posted by sch
                          FWIW my 12x36 lathe had a transformer with a 24 and 6 vac secondaries in
                          the control box. The 3 contactors were 24v coils but the wiring put the
                          coils across both the 24 and 6 v secondaries in series. The screws on the
                          screw block were side by side, and just by moving the jumper one screw the
                          coils would have seen 24 v instead of 30v. Net result was that after a year
                          or so of running the run contactor coil opened. 6v secondary is only for the pilot lights on the panel. Contactors were Chinese
                          knock offs of a standard Siemens unit. You might eyeball the Griz site, they
                          have pdf of many of the manuals online and one MAY be close to yours if
                          you haven't found a manual yet. I used a download of a griz manual as it
                          was printed much more readably than mine. I was glad I didn't put the
                          lathe parallel to the wall as the control box would have been completely
                          inaccessible.

                          Yes it's next to the wall in the garage to make room for the 6x18 surface grinder and small knee mill. I'll make sure everything is funtioning properly before pushing it back next to the wall again.

                          I downloaded the grizzly manual with similar controls, well written compared to Jet and HF manuals. However, the control panels are as different as night and day. I supect a remote starting coil, or transformer. Hopefully it will be an easy fix without the wiring diagrams? Got to get some help this weekend to pull it out from the wall and start trouble shooting.

                          thanks,
                          CC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Checking the transformer???

                            Well I managed to lever the lathe out with some 2x4 blocks and a 6' 2x4. The motor start capacitor is located on the motor. I pulled the cover and according to the wiring diagram inside it is wired for 110v instead of 220. I'm hoping that it was wired from the transformer for 110v also. The male plug on the machine is 220v plug, but that really doesn't mean much. Hopefully the motor didn't get 220 put to it, can't tell if it was wired 220 or 110 from the transformer.

                            The transformer has 0, 110, 220, 240 on one side. On the opposite side it reads 0, 24, 110. It does have a slight odor to it, so fixing to do some testing on it to see if it's fried.

                            All 3 relays look like they have push to test on them, so that will be good. Also found a pot with a reset button that was tripped.

                            thanks,
                            CC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Many of these are rebranded machines. Just look on the sites of the others that offer online manuals: enco, grizzly, harbor freight and you can probably find the same machine simply rebranded. This looks close but I don't think it's identical.

                              http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0709_m.pdf

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