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  • secret moglice recipe

    i believe the moglice patent is well known, the problem is getting the ingrediens.

    i find this works quite well:

    take some epoxy, add some stp (oil additive), some molycote ptfe-n spray and thicken it with graphite powder (the kind you get in the little squirt bottes) to the consistency required.

    first i couldnt believe it, but the epoxy hardens with these ingredients. when it wouldnt harden at shop temperature i put it under a lamp overnight. the molykote spray has some weird solvent in it, so you have to wait until it evaporates before pouring.

    as i mentioned, there is no stick slip whatsoever, its just beatifull. however i believe there might be a slight shrinkage of the mixture, but i dont really know. i always make an oversize shaft to make things really tight. so far i have used this for bearings only, so im not sure if it would be a potential problem if used on the carriage or cross slide.

    also i have only tried small stuff, so i dont know how cost effective it would be in large quantities.

  • #2
    I once took a blob of epoxy putty and mixed in some graphite powder. You could draw with it- a little crudely mind you.

    One day I'll play with these other additives and see what I get.
    I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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    • #3
      Not on my machine tool that I expect to get 20 years of working life. I don;t fill my own teeth either.

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      • #4
        This came up over and over again on cnczone on the epoxy granite thread.

        Here's the last post about it
        http://www.cnczone.com/forums/985266-post4543.html

        Solvents in epoxy tend to lower the strength and you would get more problems with things like shrinkage if the solvent has to leave.

        You can get tungsten disulphide powder from http://www.lowerfriction.com/ to replace molybdenum disulphide.

        There also a posting somewhere on a forum about a guy that made material from the original moglice patent.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ckelloug
          Solvents in epoxy tend to lower the strength and you would get more problems with things like shrinkage if the solvent has to leave.

          You can get tungsten disulphide powder from http://www.lowerfriction.com/ to replace molybdenum disulphide.
          You can also buy raw molybdenum disulphide powder on Ebay. It's not cheap, but it's way less than Devitt charges for the friggin' hazmat fee for the real deal
          http://www.ebay.com/itm/150800543831

          Also, the original Moglice was Moly-D and graphite in a common 2-part epoxy. The 2nd gen Moglice is PFTE in epoxy. Have no clue if the newer formulation has graphite. Like Forrest says, I'd be a little dubious about using home-brew Moglice on a machine that I really cared about, but for a home brew CNC machine...
          "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ckelloug
            You can get tungsten disulphide powder from http://www.lowerfriction.com/
            That's a neat page Cameron! I had never heard of Tungsten Disulfide:
            Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) is dry/solid lubricant powder and is one of the most lubricious substance in world. WS2 offers excellant dry lubricity (COF: 0.03) unmatched to any other substance, including Graphite or Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2).

            Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can also be used in high temperature and high pressure applications. It offers temperature resistance from -450 deg F (-270؛ C) to 1200 deg F (650؛ C) in normal atmosphere and from -305 deg F (-188؛ C) to 2400؛ F (1316؛ C) in Vacuum. Load bearing ability of coated film is extremely high at 300,000 psi.

            Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can also be used instaed of Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2). See comparison of WS2 / MoS2

            Since the powder offers one of the lowest Coefficient of Friction (Dynamic @ 0.03 & Static @ 0.07), the applications are unlimited and could be tried with every conceivable idea. .

            Two established ways the WS2 powder can be used are:

            1) Mixing the WS2 powder with wet lubricants (such as oil, grease & other synthetic lubricants):
            The powder can be mixed 1wt% to 15wt% (as required) with grease or oil. This will enhance lubricity of the mixture and also improves High Temperature and Extreme Pressure properties of mixture. During the use, WS2 in the mixture will get coated on mating/moving parts, which in turn reduces friction and improves lubricity and load bearing ability for much longer cycles.

            2) Coating the WS2 powder on a substrate requiring (dry) lubricity:
            The powder can be coated by spraying (at 120 psi) the substrate with dry (& cool) pneumatic air. It does not require any binders and spraying can be done at normal room temperature. Coated film will be 0.5 micron thick. In an alternative application method, the powder can also be mixed with Isopropyl alcohol and this paste could be buffed to the substrate.
            "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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            • #7
              on second thought, a certain (controlled) amount of friction might be a blessing, if you want to pour a running bearing. i might experiment a little more. heat the mixture while its curing and not afterwards for example.

              tungsten disulfide is interesting, but at a specific gravity of 7.4 you dont really get that much of it for 50 bucks.

              in brasil they apparently put sand into the mixture?
              Last edited by dian; 04-24-2012, 03:27 AM.

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              • #8
                A little friction would be better than stiction. I'm sure you could tell a controller to apply a certain minimum level of current to a motor to make it just begin to move a slide, and you should have precise control. Stiction on the other hand is going to make the drive currents fluxuate wildly if the system uses a feedback control. With a stepper you might end up with missed steps.

                The thing I wonder about with epoxy is what effect the actual epoxy particles will have when they slowly get abraded away. Will they cause separation of the sliding surfaces such that the slippery components lose some effectiveness? Will they develop into tiny hot spots as the slide moves and thereby act like hot-melt glue?

                I guess I'd also worry about the epoxy layer staying in place. Offhand, you'd think that the more slippery components go into it, the less the epoxy would be able to stick to a surface.
                I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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                • #9
                  "An antifriction paste containing epoxy resin, molybdenum disulphide, graphite, aluminum, copper, alumosilicate and polyethylenepolyamine, the components being used in the following proportions (in parts by weight): epoxy resin: 40-80 molybdenum disulphide: 15-30 graphite: 10-15 aluminum: 5-10 copper: 5-10 alumosilicate: 8-15 polyethylenepolyamine: 5-10. The antifriction paste may also contain a solvent for the epoxy resin in an amount from 5 to 30 parts by weight. This paste is suitable for both small-and large-size friction assemblies. On the basis of this paste a solid lubricating coating with high antifriction performance is produced. Thus, a coefficient of sliding friction f.sub.fr. at a sliding speed V=0.06 m/s at a load P=10 kgf/cm.sup.2 is 0.2; linear wear rate I.sub.h under the same conditions is 1.0.10.sup.-9, and service life is as high as 500 km."

                  So - the idea would be to coat one of the bearing surfaces with this mixture, let it set, and then machine it to shape? The mating bearing face would be metal, as fine a finish as achievable?

                  Ian
                  All of the gear, no idea...

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                  • #10
                    Ill stick with buying it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lazlo
                      That's a neat page Cameron! I had never heard of Tungsten Disulfide:
                      I've been using Tungsten Disulfide (ws2) for years now.
                      Big believer in it.

                      I use the .4 micron size in just about everything, I LOVE it in my manual transmission Rangers. I started using ws2 about 4yrs ago.
                      Just got a 06 Ranger with a stick, first thing I did was redo the trans fluid with ws2.

                      Also use it in my motorcycle's final drive (shaft drive). Last I looked during maintenance with about 8000 miles on the bike, the machining marks were still on all the gearing.
                      I could see no evidence of wear from 8k miles.

                      Snowblowers, outboard engine lower units, mix it in with grease, etc....
                      Going to start using with engine oil too now.

                      The price for the ws2 that I have has come down considerably in the last few years.
                      So has the particle size. When ws2 powder first came out, the particle size was still fairly large. There were issues with using it in a filtration system that it might clog the filter.
                      With really small particle sizing, it passes through the filter with little problem.

                      Now they make true nano-particle ws2 powder, but it is still big $$$.
                      When I bought a pound of it (0.4 micron), it was around $120 or so. Now it is down to $55?
                      Last edited by T.Hoffman; 04-24-2012, 09:01 AM.

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                      • #12
                        do you see any benefit in the nano stuff (< 1 micron) for a poured bearing? maybe big particles provide better characteristics in this case?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by macona
                          Ill stick with buying it.


                          "stick with" ? ------------------- good one...

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                          • #14
                            There used to be an engine oil called "Filtrate" that had graphite in it. I don't think it was compatible with paper type oil filters though. That might be an issue with the earlier posters suggestion about adding the Tungsten Disulphide to engine oil,
                            "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

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                            • #15
                              Ah, maybe a use for my tunsten carbide!

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