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Shop Student Expelled For Trying To Take Shop Project Home On School Bus.

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  • Shop Student Expelled For Trying To Take Shop Project Home On School Bus.

    http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/...al/ST013.shtml
    THAT OLD GANG 'O MINE

  • #2
    I worry about "OUR" shed machinist.

    As if I don't have enough to think about. Not all kids have a grown up steering thier life.

    David

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    • #3
      A principle with none. And no heart either. Kids are stupid - I know I was a kid and I did stupid **** too worse than that, but I never got caught either. Times are not the same now. Kids are not like we were they are more fragile than we were - not the same, can't treat them the same.

      Comment


      • #4
        During my senior year in vo-tech (1979)I wanted to rebuild my power hacksaw. It took practically an act of congress for permission to bring the main parts into the shop, and presidential pardon to take them back out. My shop instructor had to go to bat for me with the director of the school. He said it was a shame the school gave the motivated students such a hard time, but catered to the slackers.

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        • #5
          Boy am I glad I grew up when I did. If a kid today did the stuff I did when I was a teenager, they'd lock him up for life. The country is being run by cowards with no sense of humor.

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          • #6
            <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by x39:
            Boy am I glad I grew up when I did. If a kid today did the stuff I did when I was a teenager, they'd lock him up for life. The country is being run by cowards with no sense of humor.</font>
            It's a result of "zero tolerance" - which is forced by lack of authority. The phrase of the 60s and 70s was "subvert all authority". Well, the inevitable result has come to pass: A lot of growing-up issues that were previously resolved by lesser measures - maybe a few sharp words of warning from the principal, or a phone call to the parent, - or the strap - now can't be dealt with except by using nuclear weapons - expulsion. This is the result of the permissive and litigious society which teaches the rejection of legitimate authority.

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            • #7
              <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thrud:
              Kids are stupid - I know I was a kid and I did stupid **** too worse than that, but I never got caught either. Times are not the same now. Kids are not like we were they are more fragile than we were - not the same, can't treat them the same.</font>
              "Fragile" becase they've been taught a victimization ethic. Once, in England, when I was about 10 years old and fascinated with machine shops, I went snooping aroung the rubbish bin to see if there was anything worth taking home. A policeman caught me (this was when they walked a beat) and told me to stand against the wall. He stood there - all eight feet of him and the full authority of the Crown - and made a show of taking down my name to haul me up before the magistrate. Scared the hell out of me and I thought I was in his book for life. He let me off with a stern warning, I ran home and never rummaged through rubbish bins again.

              Today, if I were a wised-up kid, I would laugh at him. If he persisted I'd tell him to back off or face molestation charges. He'd have to either look the other way or call for backup, and his Sergeant, and a Social Worker, who would be obliged to put me in a foster home or risk charges of dereliction of duty. The cop would of course be suspended and face a Citizen's Committee of Inquiry. The School Board would have to hire a teacher to tutor me during my anguish because I couldn't possibly attend school while I was still in shock. Of course, both I and the policeman would have to see a psychologist for evaluation. I would never recover from this trauma, so I would have to sue the machine shop owner, police, county, and school, for intentional infliction of emotional distress which prevent me from ever going to medical school.

              [This message has been edited by NAIT (edited 02-22-2004).]

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              • #8
                When I was in high school metal shop in 1987-88 I made a hydrogen-peroxide powered rocket motor. 100 psi thrust at 30% concentration out of black pipe and a flaring tool I made. Then I wanted to make a model of a gernade but the teacher said no - so I made him a 50 cal black powder cannon for the 4th of july - his idea. Try that now.

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                • #9
                  Had I, or most of the kids I grew up with, grown up with today's philosophy on raising kids and what's acceptable, we'd just now be getting out of jail. Our parents would probably still be there.

                  How we made it to adulthood is still a mystery. (Acording to my wife, even some of us who survived childhood never became adults. ) At the age of ten, I was part of the "work crew" on my uncle's farm. We were supervised by my thirteen year old cousin who ran the tractor and drove the 5-ton truck we (over)loaded with watermelons and corn. The scariest thing was the open blade saw (driven by a belt from the tractor) we used to cut firewood. We loaded the logs into a cradle which tilted up to the bottom of the blade. Truly nutsy stuff by today's standards.

                  When we got to the age of sixteen, we could get a license to drive the school buses. My route was almost 100 miles a day in a '58 Ford 60-passenger bus with manual steering and a four-speed stick-shift transmission. All that driving for $35 a month.

                  We WERE really lucky to grow up when we did!!

                  Roger
                  Any products mentioned in my posts have been endorsed by their manufacturer.

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                  • #10
                    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NAIT:
                    Once, in England, when I was about 10 years old and fascinated with machine shops, I went snooping aroung the rubbish bin to see if there was anything worth taking home. A policeman caught me (this was when they walked a beat) and told me to stand against the wall. He stood there - all eight feet of him and the full authority of the Crown - and made a show of taking down my name to haul me up before the magistrate. Scared the hell out of me and I thought I was in his book for life. He let me off with a stern warning, I ran home and never rummaged through rubbish bins again.
                    </font>
                    I was caught be the local copper riding my motor cycle down a publc road to the fields at the bottom where we used to ride instead of pushing it.
                    He took me behind a bus stop and smacked the s*@t out of me.
                    I daren't go home and tell the old man because I would have got another lot off him but I made sure he never caught me again.

                    Unfortunatly the whole world has gone mad and we won't accept this nowdays.
                    My son, 9 at the time, and his friends were playing ball on the lawns of a big office block just over the road from us one Sunday afternoon, a regular thing, no one minded and just let them get on in full view.
                    Anyway this day one of them kicked the ball and it hit the front door, The door must have been a loose fit and it moved enough to set the alarm off, Didn't spring open, was still locked and all windows intact.
                    Well the kids just scarpered as they would.
                    I went out when I heard the alarm and saw the tail end of these kids going in all directions.
                    Next thing we had one police van and 5 squad cars 'hunting' these kids.
                    I went out and told the police what had happened and that it wasn't a break in.
                    They just totally ignored me.
                    A while later a police car and two coppers returned my son and asked my permission to question him.
                    I flatly refused, sent him to his room out the way and then told the police what arseholes they were behaving in this manner to a 9 year old who hadn't done anything but run away.
                    Again I was ignored untill I offered to ring the head of the local radio station up and ask him to pop down, in the mean while I made a big show of going round and taking the uniform numbers. As soon as I did this funily they had to go off onto other duties.
                    How can anyone respect people who act like this?
                    I had severe respect for our old copper

                    John S.

                    .

                    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                    • #11
                      I seem to have read a different article than some of you. I agree that treatment of children and childish behavior has become much more conservative over the years, but what the article describes is not necessarily childish. First the student who made the club (sounds more like a tire thumper to me) was not the student who "brandished" it at a car following the school bus. Left out of the story at this point is why the authorities chose to characterize the episode as "brandishing." Seems likely that someone in the car called the school having felt threatened. Secondly, the event happened two weeks after the student who made the club was instructed to destroy it. Sooo, he didnt follow teacher instructions, he smuggled the club out of class, and he gave it to another student with "a history of disciplinary problems."
                      Maybe what we have here is a sensationalistic report of a violation of school rules (most important of which is the failure to follow the teachers instructions). A report most notable for what is does NOT tell you, which we can only speculate. My experiences teaching leads me to speculate a pattern of insubordination and missbehavior that when taken as single events are not all that serious, but added together descibe those students who take up the greatest part of a teachers and administrators time -- time better spent teaching the students who are not trying the system at every turn.
                      Craig

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                      • #12
                        Decoy, you hit it right on the head. here comes my take on the issue as a teacher of machine shop for 17 years, and add 2 years of wood and welding to this, putting me at 19 years.

                        #1, the kid made an item that did not fit the bill or the instructions, and the item was NOT made to be a project, but rather a weapon. Granted a hammer, or anything can be a weapon, but the intent of the item was to be a weapon.

                        #2. The instructor instructed the student to destroy the item. Granted, I would have dont it myself, and followed up on it had I not done it myself by asking for the parts ASAP.

                        #3. the item fell into an idiots hands by the student knowing this would happen.

                        #4 the new reciepient of the item, with knowledge of the giving student whom snuck the item OUT of the shop used it in a threatening manner, and was probably caught before he would have used in in physical violence.


                        Here is the score here. The dumb kids did something with a shop item they made that was not right or proper. The end result of this action is that the shop looks bad, the admin over-reacts, and we get the restrictions we hate. All because of some sneaky little S&^%$s. Items will sneak out, you can never have 100% security against bongs, pipes made from items legit before, or the pocketed chunks of metal. However, I have been lucky in all of this...

                        I have a few policies that help me out here, and the students sign these policies.

                        1 - items of question are run by me. We have had a few items made in my shop that require special permission and diligence, but my method is simple. I have the admin approve the item, have the parents sign off on the item, and in the end, the parents pick up the item with the kid and sign off on it again. DUE DILIGENCE. The hacksaw project, Sheds chisels from way back, the rocket motor, and such would have passed muster easy.

                        2. - Laws against look alike weapons are set and firm. Thank the idiots that use look alikes to rob people. Thank gangs and stupid kids who threaten people with them. Thank two young men whom took 13 lives in Littleton Colorado. The grenade and cannon would not have passed muster with me.

                        Do not blame liberals and administrations for this - I am a severe conservative and damn near libertarian. Thank those above whom I mentioned

                        3 - If I think it is wrong, it is. The student has the right to appeal by talking to the admin, and having the parents on hand during the explaination and such. Things such as Bongs, throwing stars, numchucks, and such are usually stopped right there as the student really does not want to explain making these items to all involved.

                        4- I have a policy in effect for paraphenalia, weapons, misuse of projects, and stealing of metal. It is this. If you are caught doing these things with a project, item, or such, I will press charges myself in whatever way I can. Be this school, law enforcement, whatever, this will be done. I did this twice in my first two years, one for a student stealing a 1" dia. x 4" piece of stock from the lab and hitting a kid with it, and once for a project made by a student in a co-teachers class (bong). The tone was set, and the admin. knows of this, and will attest that I have walked the walk before. Sounds a bit harsh, well, it is my name on the shop door, and I have a good name thus far. The students know the parameters in advance, and know what will occur. The Plumbing teacher is currently pressing charges fot items taken from his shop.

                        I could go on and on, but here are th4e simple facts of the matter. If you want to keep good shops in your schools, it takes common sense, and diligence. There will be millions of projects taken out of school and training shops this year, and a very small ammt will be stupid stuff. However, the two or four idiot a&&%heads who sneak the unnecessary items will be the focus of it all. Four idiots out of many thousands wag the tail due to overboard response in return.

                        I have at least taken steps to prevent overboard response, though my initial rules are harsh. My "harsh rules" though actually allow for some projects being made that would otherwise not pass muster in other shops.


                        CCBW, MAH

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                        • #13
                          Way back in the flower power era, I took one of those simple shop classes when I was in 9th grade.

                          We made a flower pot garden set, a trowel, a cultivator, and simple knife. Gee how times have changed.


                          Jerry

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                          • #14
                            Jerry, if you made that stuff in shop class now you would be under investigation as a possible terrorist threat, especially if you're within one mile of a school or airport.
                            THAT OLD GANG 'O MINE

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                            • #15
                              I'm with Decoy and Swope. The facts support the principal. We did have liberal, "ignore it" policies in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even later. It lead to school shootings in the 90s. Even back in the 60s we had what I would consider an unacceptable level of school violence. The bullies just got away with it and it became accepted, even expected behavior. After all, boys will be boys. And the teachers and administrators just didn't want to be bothered.

                              Perhaps the zero tolerance does go too far in some cases. I don't think this is one of them. I think a bully and one of his friends tried to get away with this and they got caught. The consequences sound very fair to me. They need to learn a respect for authority and that their actions have consequences.

                              Three cheers for the principal.

                              Paul A.
                              Paul A.
                              SE Texas

                              Make it fit.
                              You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

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