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O/T Electric car nonsense on Fox

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  • radkins
    replied
    Originally posted by Thruthefence
    "I think you may have missed my point, it's not the vehicle itself it's the concept that's just plain dumb. But of course the real point was not even the car it was the question of why on Earth did it rate a news article by a major news organization?"

    I think YOU are missing the point. I believe Fox news was not trumpeting some technological breakthrough, but subtly (but obviously over your head, however) poking fun at the entire Electric car mania.

    Sorta like the "Onion" would do.

    Now lets get to the REAL point of the original post:

    It allows someone to take a poke at Fox news, with your Faux sense of technological superiority, because you don't like their political stance.

    Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!!!! See how dumb Fox is!!!!!

    Let's leave this crap over on "Manufacturing in America & Europe"


    And your response is just plain stupid! I was not poking anything at Fox and in fact Fox is my go-to news channel. You were presumptive and uncalled for rude and on top of that you were wrong!

    Leave a comment:


  • high country
    replied
    a hundred years ago, wind powered water wells around here, now we have literally hundreds if not thousands of wind turbines to generate power. They say the break even point is 20 years per turbine before it actually makes money. What about increases in taxes, labor to maintain, parts to maintain....etc. In the end they will likely not earn their keep for half a century and who knows how long they last.....but like soleindra, it was a great way to get a huge stack of Obama bucks.

    Technology improvement is great, losing touch with reality to get there is silly. We spend pooptillions of dollars to learn about other planets, some may even support life.....but so what, we already whine about an hour extra in an airplane.....imagine being cramped up in a rocket for 3 months.

    We are losing touch with how to grow crops, build things, make lumber from a mountain of trees......and as fast as technology will make life easy, the lack of skilled future labor forces will make it rough.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harvey Melvin Richards
    replied
    I think it's funny that so many here are whining about the the technology involved in an electric car. The batteries wear out, they have no range, it will get stuck.

    Why don't you all go back 100+ years and listen to what the peanut gallery had to say about those damned internal combustion machines. Or listen to what was originally said about computers, TV or the internet. Evolve people, look forward.

    I'm not saying that the original post is a sound idea, but as technology advances (without the help of the arm chair scientists), electric cars (or some other new technology) will look better and better. Internal combustion is a very inefficient way to propel a vehicle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thruthefence
    replied
    "I think you may have missed my point, it's not the vehicle itself it's the concept that's just plain dumb. But of course the real point was not even the car it was the question of why on Earth did it rate a news article by a major news organization?"

    I think YOU are missing the point. I believe Fox news was not trumpeting some technological breakthrough, but subtly (but obviously over your head, however) poking fun at the entire Electric car mania.

    Sorta like the "Onion" would do.

    Now lets get to the REAL point of the original post:

    It allows someone to take a poke at Fox news, with your Faux sense of technological superiority, because you don't like their political stance.

    Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!!!! See how dumb Fox is!!!!!

    Let's leave this crap over on "Manufacturing in America & Europe"

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    Apparently not......
    So it is hardly a surprise if Fox has 'science" coverage that is totally unscientific.......
    Also ABC,CBS,CNN,MSNBC etc,etc.....all fail miserably,Jerry,not just Fox. Stupid insult BTW


    Originally posted by J Tiers
    Wrong....

    Electric cars DO make sense..... for certain specific situations.
    Golf carts and that's about it.


    Originally posted by J Tiers
    Or are you perhaps saying that several million electric forklift trucks actually do not work, and were bought mistakenly , all of them are sitting around unusable?
    Apples and Oranges,just like FOX Jerry.Not many electric forklifts have AC,ever leave glass smooth concrete,ever exceed 15mph etc,etc.If they had to they wouldn't exist in any real numbers.Sure,there are some limited AT models availible,but like their little pallet jack cousins they aren't cheap either.

    Originally posted by J Tiers
    For a commuter, an electric car can make good sense.... from home to *that place*, and then back. Every day of the week.
    Hybrids....maybe, but only a few well designed hybrids (Prius, etc) actually do any better than a standard vehicle. Many GM and Ford hybrids get mileage essentially indistinguishable from a standard vehicle.
    Electrics only make sense in limited applications.Forklifts,floor polishers,electric scooters,bicycles,motorcycles and golf carts.Cars for general transportation no.Unless you want to sweat or freeze while driving them.

    Both electrics and hybrids have the same Achilles heel,added complexity.There is no way around it and it costs money,lots more of it.As a result we have yet another series of commercial,very expensive failures.It's the main reason electrics aren't selling and most Hybrid owners say they won't buy another,they simply are not cost effective.

    Leave a comment:


  • radkins
    replied
    Originally posted by vpt
    Electric is great and all till it comes time to change the batteries. That is why electric fork lifts, golf carts, and the like go for pennies compared to the same model sitting next to it with a gas engine.

    I have to agree with your assessment on the forklifts, most are bought as a necessary evil not as a better or cheaper alternative the IC engine version. We bought ours because it runs in confined areas most of the time and that's the same reason most other owners opted for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • vpt
    replied
    Electric is great and all till it comes time to change the batteries. That is why electric fork lifts, golf carts, and the like go for pennies compared to the same model sitting next to it with a gas engine.

    When buying our golf cart the salesman would not give up on trying to sell his electric carts that he seamed to have to many of. What caught my eye was the stacks and stacks of junk batteries on the pallets in his shop. Even with the electric carts being less than half price of the gassers and having "new batteries" we went with the gasser.

    Found out that one tank of gas in the cart lasts a year! After seeing how little gas golf carts use they should make it legal to use them in towns on 25mph speed limit roads only. Would save huge amounts of fuel!

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by wierdscience
    Jerry,we all already know this.
    Apparently not......

    You evidently watch Fox, and Fox apparently KNOWS that "you" (the generalized Fox viewer, not *you* personally and specifically) are stupid enough to believe the slanted and carefully edited stuff they hand out...... Fox makes NO real effort to disguise the fact that their edited news is edited and 'redacted" to serve a political purpose.... the other networks at least provide some general coverage, whatever their slant is......

    So it is hardly a surprise if Fox has 'science" coverage that is totally unscientific.......

    Originally posted by wierdscience

    Electric cars are the textbook definition of insanity.You know the one repeating the same experiment over and over and expecting a different result?
    Well to expand on that there is actually a result.The experiment becomes increasingly more expensive.

    Wrong....

    Electric cars DO make sense..... for certain specific situations.

    When you KNOW the mileage/route/energy needed, and it is doable, then electric makes sense. You can confidently KNOW that you need that, only that, and plan accordingly.

    Or are you perhaps saying that several million electric forklift trucks actually do not work, and were bought mistakenly , all of them are sitting around unusable?

    For a commuter, an electric car can make good sense.... from home to *that place*, and then back. Every day of the week.

    Particularly since so much of commuter driving is spent stopped in traffic.... a gas car is idling, spewing exhaust and burning 3 dollar gas (around here... in SF it might cost 5), but the electric car is using only a tiny background current while stopped in traffic. Hybrids....maybe, but only a few well designed hybrids (Prius, etc) actually do any better than a standard vehicle. Many GM and Ford hybrids get mileage essentially indistinguishable from a standard vehicle.

    Where the electric car makes NO sense is when the need is unknown..... or at least not closely specified.... if you are a salesman, you (and your employer) don't want to hear about NOT getting to the big prospective new client because your battery is flat, and it will take until tomorrow to recharge..... You want and need to be able to stop, "get gas", and proceed on your way.

    Even for many commuters, it is a problem, because range on useful vehicles is STILL not sufficient to allow ANY "extra" usage for many folks.... Run an errand on the way home and you may risk being stranded if your one-way commute is over 20 miles or so, because your range is perhaps only 60 miles. (charging stations will cost money, and are NOT happening except in the few"green demonstration areas".)

    In St Louis, it is EASY to put on 100 miles without leaving the metro area.... you couldn't get from one suburb to another and back in an electric car, although you COULD commute to downtown and back pretty easily. In LA it would be ridiculous to even think about.

    NOT useful as as a primary or "only" car.

    The deal about electric plants is stupid..... Most folks can't use an electric car, so charging demand is going to be far lower. Plus, that lower demand is substantially overnight, when usage is much lower. That , along with the fact that most cannot use an electric, limits the power grid problem, if the "problem" even exists at all, outside of the "most adverse scenario" in the mind of the strongest opponent of the electric car idea.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 05-17-2012, 08:37 AM.

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  • radkins
    replied
    Originally posted by wierdscience
    The concept of an electric car itself is nothing more than a novelty,it's been attempted since what 1890?Still in the realm of tinkerers and rich folk who want a play toy.


    Unfortunately it seems it's that way and very well may be destined to stay that way.

    My cousin is into all kinds of nonsense and is often calling me (another guy sent me the link to the car however) with "proof" that some of the ideas he talks about are in fact possible, he is always trying to show me the newest "free energy" device and fully believes that big oil is behind keeping this technology suppressed. It's amazing just how many people cannot understand that it is impossible for a generator to produce more power than it takes to run it or that electricity cannot be simply "stepped up" (increased Wattage) by some kind of solid state device. The local power company a few years ago went around to shopping centers with a demo set up that was aimed at educating people on energy conservation, it was simply an exercise bike with a small generator connected to a series of 100 Watt light bulbs and people were invited to pedal the thing while the attendant progressively turned on the bulbs. A lot of people, most in fact, were shocked (sorry, pun intended but I couldn't resist that one! ) to see just how much effort it took to power just one 100 Watt bulb, never mind three or four, but even more shocking (ok I won't do it again, ) was that most people simply could not understand why the bike got harder to pedal as more lights were turned on!.

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers
    Sheesh.....

    people are ACTUALLY DISCUSSING this? As if there was anything debatable here?

    it isn't about "pushing air out of the way"......or any other such horse hockey It's WAY simpler......

    "Energy balance".....


    Thank you, pull ahead please.............
    Jerry,we all already know this,it's just a Wednesday night nothing to do post/reply thing here.

    Electric cars are the textbook definition of insanity.You know the one repeating the same experiment over and over and expecting a different result?
    Well to expand on that there is actually a result.The experiment becomes increasingly more expensive.

    Leave a comment:


  • high country
    replied
    Originally posted by jkeyser14
    Actually, I think most of the electric car crowd is more in tune with reality than you think. Yes, occasionally the power goes down for a few days during a bad snow storm, but if that's the case you aren't out driving anyway.

    Imagine never having to stop at a gas station again. Imagine no more oil changes or repair bills (except shocks, brakes, and tires). Imagine stable pricing that doesn't fluctuate $0.60 per gallon because someone farted in the middle east.

    Then there's the fact that electric cars give you torque on demand, not after you've waited for your engine to hit it's power band past 4k rpms. Or the fact that the traction control reacts 1000x faster than on an internal combustion powered vehicle.

    Disclaimer: I do not own an electric car, they are still to expensive. However, I drove a Tesla Roadster and it completely changed my mind about electric vehicles the instant I pressed on the accelerator. There's no more VROOOM of the engine, it's more like a ZAP and you're gone. I also like how my wife described it, "it's like driving a laser beam".
    Something about having #2000 of hazardous material in every car, the inability to just pull in and fill up, the need to have even more electronics on a vehicle turns me off. I personally don't need a lot more power than our tdi jetta has and 13 gallons of diesel takes me into 600 miles pretty easily. I would rather change oil than batteries.....the kicker is, I live where you could drive all day and never see a power pole or gas station....I can carry spare gas.

    We get 3 foot snow storms most years, I still have to drive 28 miles to work.

    Now were I to be where I lived inner city, I could see it your way. But out here, electric cars better have a backup plan or stick to town.

    Leave a comment:


  • beanbag
    replied
    Originally posted by TGTool
    I hate to break the news to this Chinese guy since he's so excited and to Fox being so far behind the curve, but great minds and scientists pushing the envelope are on the verge of unleashing unlimited free energy. These guys can explain it much better than I can.
    I would like to point out that this is a fraud website (in case that was not already clear). You can tell by the structure of the articles. They start off by saying things that are true, then saying things that are true, but not relevant, then saying things that are vague, then saying things that are false, and finally ending with making stuff up.
    Last edited by beanbag; 05-17-2012, 12:32 AM.

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  • beanbag
    replied
    I think you were supposed to tell from the silly music that they think this car is silly as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by bborr01
    Par for faux news.

    Brian
    Bit of a crock to kick only Fox when it is being trumpeted around the world by news agencies, globally. Better to say "par for news reporting". It probably indicates a quiet news day and nothing more.

    Leave a comment:


  • TGTool
    replied
    I hate to break the news to this Chinese guy since he's so excited and to Fox being so far behind the curve, but great minds and scientists pushing the envelope are on the verge of unleashing unlimited free energy. These guys can explain it much better than I can.

    In fact, I can't seem to explain it at all. My sister buys into this and I can't seem to make any headway pointing out the paucity of real support or concrete information other than the assertions that "this is true".

    Leave a comment:

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