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Learned More on Paper about Tungsten Disulphide

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  • ckelloug
    replied
    From what I've read, WS2 properly applied in a thin layer forms a van der waals bond with the surface and is there forever. You don't want any more WS2 on your surface than is necessary to do this which means rub or blast on and remove the excess. It also likely means that you have to disperse it to a great extent as clumps of the stuff will probably have more tendency to bind to each other than the surface.

    A suspension of something this dense would undoubtedly settle so in order to get a stable colloid of it, you need to have a very small particle size.

    Based on the van der wall force adhesion I'm fairly sure the more is better adage doesn't apply. My predicted usage method would be to mix at very high shear with alcohol and then rub it on. Other van der wall force related work I've done suggests that there is probably an optimal amount of it in the solution you want to use. The question for me now is really how high a shear do you have to mix it under before the tiny particles go around coating things nicely.

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  • T.Hoffman
    replied
    Originally posted by lazlo
    .......and apparently the issue with Tungsten disulfide being an oil additive is that it's so dense that it's nearly impossible to keep it in suspension.
    With larger particles, yes- but that's 'permently suspended'.
    If they do tend to settle, usually the agitation of the fluid within the motor or gearbox generally spins them up back into circulation.

    Guy on my motorcycle forum who's an engineering geek did some experiments with particle size and settling over time.
    He used an industrial Vitamix blender to suspend very small particle ws2 powder.
    He had different blending times and observed the setting amount over time with clear bottles.

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by Low-alloy
    I was hoping that Tungsten DiSulphide was going to be the oil additive or dry lube, now I am not so sure.
    When someone first posted about WS2 a couple of weeks ago, I did some idle reading, and apparently the issue with Tungsten disulfide being an oil additive is that it's so dense that it's nearly impossible to keep it in suspension.

    As far as scratching the parent material, I think the general usage model is like lapping abrasive: the harder Tungsten disulfide crystals are supposed to embed in the softer parent material, and act like ball bearings.

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  • Low-alloy
    replied
    Originally posted by dian
    so, i mixed it with alcohol, rubbed it onto a polished shaft. after it dried, it came off, it scratched the shaft.
    The fact that it is scratching the surface of metal is pretty troubling--and may have led to its poor performance on the slide test? Could the Tungsten DiSulphide have been contaminated somehow? Anybody else that has used tungsten disulphide noticed any roughening of surfaces during/after application?

    I was hoping that Tungsten DiSulphide was going to be the oil additive or dry lube, now I am not so sure.

    Cheers!

    Low-Alloy

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  • dian
    replied
    eupho, thats exactly what it is, a rِhm rg3 6 mm. i didnt even notice it was there.

    otherwise im mainly interested in reducing the stick slip (for shop purposes). if this doenst do it, i will no more mess around with it.

    as i stated before, the stuff doesn feel especially slippery. also, it scratched the (unhardened) shaft.
    Last edited by dian; 06-01-2012, 05:20 AM.

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by T.Hoffman
    ...don't think this is the most telling way of doing this.
    Agreed - he's measuring stiction. Like you say, Tungsten DiSulphide is closely related to Molybdenum Disulphide -- it's an extreme pressure additive.

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  • T.Hoffman
    replied
    Originally posted by dian
    tds button takes off a little earlier, but the way oil button is much faster. big surprise: third button takes off first and is off the plate by the time the other ones start moving.

    hmm, putting the stuff into my engine, i dont know. the sucessful application of tds probably is not trivial.
    ...don't think this is the most telling way of doing this.
    Not that I have a great way of doing home-shop experiments with ws2, but this doesn't seem like the best expeirment.

    I would think looking at a friction wear pattern over a length of time with treated vs untreaded might be a better approach?

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  • Euph0ny
    replied
    Firing blanks

    Dian,

    is that one of those Rohm blank-firing pistols to the left in your photo? My brother-in-law once gave me his non-functional one for cleaning - I couldn't believe how much soot and gunk could accumulate inside... but it worked again once I scraped out the rubbish.

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  • dian
    replied
    so, i mixed it with alcohol, rubbed it onto a polished shaft. after it dried, it came off, it scratched the shaft. i rubbed it onto a rough shaft. it embedded a little. so i have a slippery rough shaft?

    race a the granite plate:

    i put three ground buttons on a clean, polished granite surface. one used way oil, one a mix of tds with same way oil, third was dry.



    i then raised one end of the plate and watched. after having done it several times, here is the result:

    tds button takes off a little earlier, but the way oil button is much faster. big surprise: third button takes off first and is off the plate by the time the other ones start moving.

    hmm, putting the stuff into my engine, i dont know. the sucessful application of tds probably is not trivial.

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  • H380
    replied
    Better link.

    http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ullet-coating/

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  • Rex
    replied
    Worth a try. Where do you buy it?

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  • darryl
    replied
    Lazlo, that method tweaked my interest as well. If it works as well as blasted-on coating, it would be a good all-round method for the home shop.

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by ckelloug
    My point in bringing this up was that it appears that successfully using WS2 may be a bit harder than dusting the surface you want to be slippery with the stuff.
    I'm curious to try this method described on the lowerfriction.com web site:
    "the powder can also be mixed with Isopropyl alcohol and this paste could be buffed to the substrate."

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by T.Hoffman
    I have heard of some burnishing their automatic pistol slides with ws2 as well.
    It's also very popular to coat bullets (for reloading) with WS2

    http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletcoating.html

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  • T.Hoffman
    replied
    I have heard of some burnishing their automatic pistol slides with ws2 as well.

    I haven't tried that, but I'm about to add ws2 to my recenly acquired Ranger on the next oil change.

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