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Carbide tips

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  • #16
    I must admit, I didn't pick up on "tips", but I don't think that is a reason to belittle a poster for the lack of the proper terminology. I have been made to feel welcome on this forum and I would everyone is welcomed. Bob.


    • #17
      I recommend we just let things lie. The lad is just being himself and we should be used to it by this time. At least he didn't call somebody names for using the term "mil" in reference to metal foil, this time.



      • #18
        I'd like to think I'm somewhat easy going when questions are asked. But to be 100% honest, there really wasn't enough information given to properly answer the question. However, If I've got a question or I'm trying to find replacements for anything that takes carbide "tips", then I'll spend some time on that previously mentioned Carbide Depot website. If you can't find your answers there? Then you are going to have some problems. If the OP still has the code designation that the old ones were sold with then that would be the way to go with a Google search. But I'd very much suspect he doesn't due to his question.

        I guess it's all up to your point of view, And I'm most certainly NOT ragging on the OP. But if this is a hobby then it's most certainly about accuracy. I've done it myself, not providing enough information in the original question is far too easy to do. Given all the information contained in your standard carbide code designation from the retention method running out to the tip radius then it's impossible to answer the original question at this point.

        No doubt we all have our own little pet subjects that seem to be creeping into forums like this one and don't happen to make good logical sense when we do see them becoming comman but still incorrect. I've got to admit to a few myself. How or even why the term "jib" has become understood as a reference towards a machine tools "gib" is head scratchingly non obvious to me unless you plan on sailing your machine tools somewhere.

        "Digital Verniers" or even worse "Digiverns" in regards to digital calipers would be one that simply drives me nuts. Especially so when used by people that at one time worked as paid machinists. I've yet to see any old and comman vernier scale that had any digital input. There friggen digital calipers or just calipers. Calling an item by it's standard recognized term certainly helps. If we don't maintain those standards we then end up with people like Airsmith who couldn't or wouldn't accept what the real worlds defined terms were for left and right hand lathe tools. In fact if I remember correctly the whole world was incorrect except for him. Right or wrong, machining is filled with specific terms exactly like any other industry.

        Local slang terms for almost anything don't make it any easier. What seems to be correct for your area and simply understood may not be on a international forum like this one.

        I'm sure with a bit more info someone here will know of something that will work.

        Last edited by uncle pete; 07-09-2012, 01:09 AM.


        • #19
          Originally posted by john11668
          I am looking for 11 deg clearance angle tips to suit a d'andrea boring head.
          D'andrea ones are good but extremely easily chipped .
          The world of tips is confusing to say the least .
          Any advice ( or tips )
          U mean "carbide inserts", right?
          The only thing I know for sure is that the second letter of the insert designation is "P". If u can find out and give the full designation for your insert, then maybe I can make a suggestion. We would need info like
          *P** (3 or 4 letter designation that tells the shape)
          A bunch of numbers to tell the size
          A few more letters to tell the chip breaker
          A few more letters/numbers to tell the grade of material and coating

          Yes, it is complicated. No info = no help.


          • #20
            My last employment was as Production manager in a heavy engineering company in South West Scotland. I am a mechanical engineer with a long history in production engineering and I would not have been in this particular post if I were indeed ignorant!!!. Unfortunately however few of us know everything and even in that exalted position I might have to ask questions of the Machine Shop or Fab. shop superintendents. Similarly they might even ask advice of me.

            Now back to "tips"
            In that part of the world the word "tip" was used to describe anything replaceable which was brazed, screwed, or clamped onto a tool to produce a cutting edge.
            The Wee Glaswegian chap who operated the Scharmann Floor Borer would often accost me on the shop floor. “hi Joahn, can yer gi’ us a line fer a new tip?” I would never have dreamt of correcting him.
            “ Sorry Gordon , but if you so wish I can sign a Stores requisition so that you may prevail upon the the stores manager for a replaceable insert”

            This guy took structures onto his machine, which could be up to a hundred feet , by forty, weighing maybe 120 tons , and which might have already accumulated in value to £230K to £250k. He set them up square to his machine head using piano wire and callipers. He would split differences in fabrication errors, establish minimum metal removal , then set off to machine faces and bores to a high degree of precision. Some jobs might take him 60 – 80 hours. I was not unknown for him to spend three weeks on an individual structure. In the process he might be accommodating concessions due to fabrication errors or even due to errors by his colleagues in the machine shop. (If someone turned an 18” bronze bush undersize you did not scrap it). When the job came off his machine you knew it was right.

            He knew that his tip was properly called an insert, I knew that too, but custom and practice in this part of the world would have meant that I would be the R’sole if I corrected him. and tomorrow it would still be a "tip".

            So I apologise for being so uncouth as to use the word tip when all along I knew I was referring to a replaceable carbide INSERT

            I apologise for being Ignorant of the designation codes for these Inserts.
            If I had known I would not have been asking such "silly" questions.

            I apologise for not being specific about the material , bore size, tool size, but as a home shop guy it is possible I might use this bar on a range of materials, a range of bore sizes, and heaven forbid that I might hope to find an insert type which would cover a number of applications.

            Indeed I had even better apologise for having won a D'Andrea boring outfit for a few quid on Ebay.
            It seems that it is even an offence to have one of those until you are equipped to describe it fully and properly.

            Now apologies over.
            I will come back and post a pic of the outfit and the INSERT style.
            Then maybe someone will be able to help me with a common, generally applicable insert style which will cover a range of applications and not cost me an arm and a leg, and which I can buy in small numbers so that when I die my wife will not have to sell the remaining eight on ebay!


            • #21
              There's no one magic insert grade and chipbreaker design that is going to work perfect in all materials. If that were possible, there would be one big giant happy carbide insert company out there.

              I can help you find something that is OK for some stuff, really good for other stuff, and may bust on some other crappy material. I may even be able to help you find something in small quantities, but you will probably have to buy from Ebay, I don't know where else you might search.

              From the WNMG shape that you posted elsewhere, I am 90% sure you will want WPGT or WPMT inserts. The SIZE you need is going to be the difficult part. May I ask how you determined that it needs to be an 11؛ (P) insert and not a 7؛ (C) insert? If it was 7؛, it would be a WCMT.

              If you have a worn (but not completely smashed) insert to reference, please take a photo with a scale to help determine the exact size you need.

              Hope this helps.


              • #22
                Oh come on TDM, this is getting pathetic.
                Even my two year old knows when to stop whining.

                Let's get back on topic or George has to step in before the question is answered.



                • #23
                  Originally posted by ikdor
                  Oh come on TDM, this is getting pathetic.
                  Even my two year old knows when to stop whining.

                  Let's get back on topic or George has to step in before the question is answered.


                  Not only is he whining, he has to tell us twice.


                  • #24
                    Chart for boring bar inserts,look it up by the description-


                    Then convert to ISO if needed-


                    Basic insert chart-

                    Last edited by wierdscience; 07-10-2012, 09:28 AM.
                    I just need one more tool,just one!


                    • #25
                      Personally, I don't think he's whining as much as being an ass. Sadly this seems to be par for the course lately... On a forum where "how do I sharpen lathe bits" is a common and accepted question there was no need for that type of pedantic response.

                      To the OP, most the rest of us knew what you were talking about right off the bat, and I'm impressed by your restraint WRT Tdmidget. Can't believe he's still being pissy on page 3...
                      Last edited by adatesman; 07-10-2012, 09:52 AM.


                      • #26
                        Looks like he has stopped being "pissy" and either withdrawn his posts or been "administrated"

                        Right so further research elsewhere yield the following

                        "The inserts you require are :-

                        WCGT 020102L DP300 for cutting steel
                        WCGT 020102L DK100 for cutting aluminium / cast iron
                        WCGT 020102L DC100 for cutting cast iron

                        TPGX 09T302L DP300 for cutting steel
                        TPGX 09T302L DK100 for cutting aluminium / cast iron
                        TPGX 09T302L DC100 for cutting cast iron

                        TPGX 110302L DP300 for cutting steel
                        TPGX 110302L DK100 for cutting aluminium / cast iron
                        TPGX 110302L DC100 for cutting cast iron

                        Inserts are also available with a 0.4 tip radius on the all the inserts."

                        This is is from the UK agent for the boring head system
                        And while it is most helpful there is no way I could buy a box of each.
                        I am sure I will cut all of those materials, and I know that those inserts are specified to optimise use in industry.
                        I however am going to make a few "prototype" components and as I am doing it in my spare time I can afford less than ideal cutting conditions/ materials as long as I achieve my aims. T
                        I can probably tolerate a "Tip" radius ( his word not mine in this instance) but equally might be happy with sharp.
                        I am sure that I can probably accommodate a number of chipbreaker configurations.
                        What is a constraint however is the clearance angle (11deg) as the seat dictates this. (Measured carefully with vernier protractor)

                        Iscar seem to do a similar insert configuration and it makes me wonder if the Iscar "Itsbore " system is common with the D'andrea item.

                        What I suppose we I am trying to get down to is an understanding of the insert designations given above.
                        Then to establish which inserts from other suppliers might fit and do a similar job albeit that they might not be optimal.
                        Then maybe I can approach the bunch who flog these things on ebay to see if I can get anything at reasonable prices

                        I am still trying to get to grips with the posting of pics . Will get there eventually, but it seems my Samsung phone cam uses some unrecognised format


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by john11668
                          Looks like he has stopped being "pissy" and either withdrawn his posts or been "administrated"
                          They're all still there as far as I can see. Good on you for keeping above it. I went through something similar with him a couple weeks back, and am not the type that's able to brush it off so easily.

                          My 2 cents re: inserts- for hobby use, so long as you know the right size/shape/relief angle get a couple of whatever's cheap and available. If it gives satisfactory results, you're done. If not, start looking into whether it's a rigidity/geometry/etc issue and then dig into the finer points of coatings, chipbreakers, etc. What worked on the big Mazaks we had in the shop I used to run means nothing on smaller, less rigid equipment, to the point of not even being applicable. Best bet would be to ask someone with similar equipment what works for them, or buy 1 or 2 at a time until you find something you're happy with. Now that you know the type of *tip* needed, it's just a matter of seeing what's available at what price.
                          Last edited by adatesman; 07-10-2012, 03:38 PM.


                          • #28
                            IF you need 11 degree inserts, then why are you listing WCGX that has 7 degree relief?

                            Second, the TPGX inserts you listed are two different sizes - the 09 size and the 11 size. (These are the sizes specified in ISO. You can also find THE EXACT SAME INSERTS specified in ANSI size.)

                            Go here to see what the numbers and letters mean:

                            So you still need to find the exact size and shape of your inserts, but with the help of the above chart, it is possible.

                            Then you will have to buy the inserts off ebay because that is one of the few places that sells inserts individually.


                            • #29
                              Sorry beanbag
                              The Boring head has three sizes of bar, with carriers to suit and so uses three sizes of insert.
                              The larger ones 09 and 11 are triangular and 11 degree.
                              The smaller 02 inserts are trigon and I did not measure them ( I dont think my protractor would manage that) so I made the unforgivable assumption that they would be the same.

                              I will have a look at the carbidedepot site but my previous visit did not give me a clear interpretation of the numbers


                              • #30
                                Hmmm... a potential snag. I wonder what causes the manufacturer inserts to be TPGX? A true "X" in that position designates that there is something "special" or otherwise non-standard to the mounting design whether that be countersink angle, screw diameter, screw pitch, unusual clamping mechanism, etc. Of course, many place an X in a position for when the designator doesn't matter which one it is. If that were the case, though, I would expect the listing to read TPXX. It doesn't.
                                Last edited by Arthur.Marks; 07-10-2012, 08:07 PM.