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  • Deceptive business practice

    I ordered this book by Harold Hall a little while ago

    Metal Lathe for Home Machinists : Harold Hall : 9781565236936

    I needn't have bothered as it is identical, chapter for chapter, down to the last word and photo, to his book in the Workshop Practice Series, which I already own.

    Lathework: A Complete Course (Workshop Practice) : Harold Hall : 9781854862303

    Oh well, fool me once....................................

  • #2
    Sorry that happened to you, but what you really just discovered is that the copyright system is very broken. One is a US publisher the other GB. Stupid system, no?

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    • #3
      Since I don't know exact the specifics, I can't say this for sure. But it's the publishers of those workshop practice series that have a bad habit of changing the covers. I've been burned a time or two myself that way. I'd doubt Harold has any control of this, and may know nothing about it.Most of them are pretty good books. Like yourself I hate buying them twice. But after a thought, two different publishers seems quite odd for a book that was written and first published only a few years ago.

      Pete
      Last edited by uncle pete; 07-30-2012, 08:36 PM.

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      • #4
        The powers that be may not have deleted the posts, I just saw this thread first:
        http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...iness-practice
        And replied to it.

        But then later I noticed this thread:
        http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...iness-practice
        which has several more posts then this one.

        I probably should have replied in the second thread but I just didn't see it first.

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        • #5
          Don't know how that happened, I only posted it once.

          Perhaps the mods would be kind enough to combine the two as I can't do that.

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          • #6
            If both were published by the same publisher either as holder of the copyright or as agent of who ever owns the copyright, then both publishings may be legal.

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            • #7
              I would send it back.

              JL................

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              • #8
                Originally posted by oldtiffie View Post
                If both were published by the same publisher either as holder of the copyright or as agent of who ever owns the copyright, then both publishings may be legal.
                I don't doubt that they are both legal, it's rather common to release things under different titles in different markets --you see this quite a lot with movies. My comment was simply that the copyright system is pretty broken --and I think this is a good (if rather minor) example of that.

                Of course if it was me that had bought both books I would not think it so minor, I simply meant by way of comparison to some things that copyright can inflict on the unsuspecting.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                  I would send it back.

                  JL................
                  Hardly worth it given that I paid $A12.50 including postage for it and it would probably cost me more to return it to the UK from Australia.


                  Originally posted by + or - Zero View Post
                  I don't doubt that they are both legal, it's rather common to release things under different titles in different markets --you see this quite a lot with movies. My comment was simply that the copyright system is pretty broken --and I think this is a good (if rather minor) example of that.
                  Of course if it was me that had bought both books I would not think it so minor, I simply meant by way of comparison to some things that copyright can inflict on the unsuspecting.

                  Given what I paid for the book, yes it is minor, however publishers are very quick to demand that people respect their IP and copyright, they are not so scrupulous when it comes to protecting the rights of the consumer.
                  A simple notice along the lines of "originally published in 2003 as Lathework, #43 in the Workshop Practice Series, would have sufficed.

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                  • #10
                    It's pretty standard practice, or used to be......

                    Lots of books were published in the UK under one title, and later in the US under another.... It's polite to mention somewhere "first published in the UK as "xxx yyy zzz", but as we know, many people are not polite..... Some "hole in a donkey" popped out of a line of traffic right in front of me today, and when I honked to warn him I was there, he laid on the horn and gave me the finger..... OF COURSE he was driving a BMW.... seems they always are..... So much for politeness, or consideration. As in traffic, apparently so in publishing....
                    1601

                    Keep eye on ball.
                    Hashim Khan

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steelmaster View Post
                      Hardly worth it given that I paid $A12.50 including postage for it and it would probably cost me more to return it to the UK from Australia.





                      Given what I paid for the book, yes it is minor, however publishers are very quick to demand that people respect their IP and copyright, they are not so scrupulous when it comes to protecting the rights of the consumer.
                      A simple notice along the lines of "originally published in 2003 as Lathework, #43 in the Workshop Practice Series, would have sufficed.
                      Yes that would be the logical and forthright way to do it... but there is no copyright requirement to do that.

                      It is more then a little likely that the place you bought the second one from simply didn't know that it was the same as some other book that he also may be distributing --for exactly the same reason you didn't know --basically a different inventory number and does not appear the same outwardly.

                      Or they could be outright crooks --I just don't have any knowledge of the company at all. I'd be tempted to go for giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling them about what happened --their reaction is sure gonna tell you if crooks they be. Or not.

                      And if crooks they be, then this would sure be a good place to start getting the word out --I'd really like to know what their reply would be.
                      Last edited by + or - Zero; 07-31-2012, 12:11 AM. Reason: Added last line

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                      • #12
                        When Model Engineer Magazine, who probably published the book anyway, was owned by Percival Marshal, then MAP and Argus. it was for the benefit of the hobby (yes they made money but not really big bucks). Once Nexus got there paws on it it was only a cash cow to them and anything for a buck. That is probably why you have two identical books.
                        Last edited by loose nut; 07-31-2012, 01:35 PM.
                        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

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                        • #13
                          Same situation with the Hanes and Chilton model specific automotive repair manuals, both the same.

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