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OT: Do Cyclotrons Only Consume Power

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  • #16
    Okay, so they are re-purposing the University farm. There is most likely sufficient space available to put in a power generation facility also.
    So are you going to start up a NIMBY petition to stop the whole thing?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post
      Berkley National Laboratory estimates that a typical 30 MeV cyclotron requires about 400 kW
      to run. ... at full capacity for 1 hour, it would need 400 kW-hrs ... Also, it would be reasonable
      to subtract about 120 kW from that figure since we are only talking about a 17 MeV machine.
      That's not so bad, there are stationary fuel cells that can handle 400kWh. Mind, fuel cells
      are still fossil fuel-based energy sources.

      Originally posted by bob_s
      So are you going to start up a NIMBY petition to stop the whole thing?
      Phffft- who'd sign?

      .

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      • #18
        There is a guy in Alaska that is putting this cyclotron together is over on PM, or at least used to be. I think he went by the name Cyclotronguy. From what I remember he had everyone around getting into a hissy-fit because they have so clue what it is.

        There have been people working on small ones using big rare earth magnets. And I think there is even a high school student who set one up. Not terribly complex but the magnetic fields make it somewhat dangerous, though not nearly as bad as a MRI.

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        • #19
          A cyclotron emits radiation as its primary direct byproduct of operation. A bit of noise from some cooling fans and vacuum pumps and that's about it. Radiation is easily stopped by big chunks of concrete. There is a lot of money in medical isotopes. The primary reason for building a local cyclotron is that many of the preferred radioisotopes have very short half lives which is why they are preferred. Short half life radionuclides do less harm to patients. They are used for mapping of organs such as the thyroid with radioactive iodine and for cancer treatment such as radioactive pellets inserted in the prostate. The problem with short half life isotopes is they have no shelf life and can't be shipped far. They need to be made close to place of use.

          I have always wanted to build a linear accelerator.





          I already have the globe which is the hard part.
          Last edited by Evan; 09-28-2012, 12:06 AM.
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Evan View Post

            I have always wanted to build a linear accelerator.
            I've built two now. Unfortunately, they were intended strictly for research as they were built with University resources. I always wanted to build one in my basement, so to speak, also. I suppose you are familiar with "electron trees", but for those who are not, just Google "lichtenberg figures"

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Po35...feature=fvwrel

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            • #21
              Some pretty fantastic shapes that look a lot like neurons for some odd reason.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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              • #22
                OK.... Washington University used to have a cyclotron on the main campus, perhaps 200-400 feet from residences across Forest Park Parkway....... no problems, no dimming the lights, fuggetaboutit. The residents in question are the biggest NIMBY's you can imagine, also..... maybe they never knew about it.

                Barnes/Jewish Hospital has at least one in the basement, because some of their imaging, etc isotopes have half lives of minutes, and have to be made right there.

                A cyclotron can be pretty small..... the size of an MRI machine, perhaps, and can consume about the same power or less. Not some sort of atomic bomb that will suck you all into a black hole. They are straightforward machines, and do what they do nicely.

                Y'all need to worry about something important instead.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

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                • #23
                  What makes me laugh when I think about it is that right in the middle of Berkeley, California, one of the only towns in North America to have a communist government and the centre of everything that is anti-everything, there is, at the University a nuclear reactor in the basement of one of the halls. It's a small research reactor that can even run under remote control but is still a reactor. I wonder how many of the professional protesters know about it?
                  Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    OK....
                    Barnes/Jewish Hospital has at least one in the basement, because some of their imaging, etc isotopes have half lives of minutes, and have to be made right there.
                    As a point of interest, Barnes/Jewish is getting another one for proton beam cancer treatment:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-kA3alMl0

                    I work for the company that developed this. It is a 250 MeV synchrocyclotron built using a superconducting magnet to get the size down to a manageable size (in relative terms). It's been producing beam for a while now and is very close to coming on line.

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                    • #25
                      My neighbor already has one, but he had to build a nuclear reactor to supply the electricity. When he runs it, it interrupts every one elses electric power.

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                      • #26
                        I think your neighbor's might be bigger than my neighbor's.

                        It seems as though Advanced Cyclotron Systems Inc. may be the vendor on this
                        build. If so, their product range operates in the 14 to 30 MeV spectrum.

                        Originally posted by J Tiers
                        Y'all need to worry about something important instead.
                        It's the bigger picture I'm interested in. T'aint the cyclotron that riles me.

                        Mind you, wondered early on about the process associated with locating it up the road
                        in the heart of a residential district. If you can imagine, in May 2011 two plans for the
                        site were presented to an adjacent community: A) vehicle maintenance pool; B) medical
                        research and prod'n facility. Oil changes or isotopes - decisions, decisions.

                        In October 2011, Plan B was announced and the tender process was begun.

                        Now less than a year later, the site work is nearing completion ? Howzat possible?
                        There are modest home renovations underway around here that are running past 14 mo.

                        With 600 acres to build up and 20k people to accomodate, there is a lot that can happen.
                        However it shakes out, there will be a vast change to the landscape.

                        .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                          A cyclotron can be pretty small..... the size of an MRI machine, perhaps, and can consume about the same power or less. Not some sort of atomic bomb that will suck you all into a black hole. They are straightforward machines, and do what they do nicely.

                          Y'all need to worry about something important instead.
                          Yep,one of the guys at work used to moonlight as a curier for the finished products.The company had three or four units in different locations.They were no bigger than an MRI.
                          I just need one more tool,just one!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Natural gas is dirt cheap and will stay that way for quite a while now. I suspect they may be enlarging the Gas generating plant down by the river.

                            Yep, I was right. In 2008 and 2009 they commissioned 243 megawatts of gas powered capacity at the Clover Bar Energy Centre.

                            http://www.capitalpower.com/generati...rgyCentre.aspx
                            Last edited by Evan; 09-28-2012, 05:09 PM.
                            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              Natural gas is dirt cheap and will stay that way for quite a while now. I suspect they may be enlarging the Gas generating plant down by the river.

                              Yep, I was right. In 2008 and 2009 they commissioned 243 megawatts of gas powered capacity at the Clover Bar Energy Centre.

                              http://www.capitalpower.com/generati...rgyCentre.aspx
                              The main U of A campus has its own power plant. I don't doubt that the new facility would have its own also.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                                What makes me laugh when I think about it is that right in the middle of Berkeley, California, one of the only towns in North America to have a communist government and the centre of everything that is anti-everything, there is, at the University a nuclear reactor in the basement of one of the halls. It's a small research reactor that can even run under remote control but is still a reactor. I wonder how many of the professional protesters know about it?
                                Nope - it's long gone . Not enough Nuclear Engineering students to justify it's existence, given the usual background level noise from the
                                Bird and Bunny people. The attached office/class room building is now used by the Computer Science people. I don't know what was done
                                with the space occupied by the reactor. Probably some college or other is growing organic mushrooms in it. Or maybe it was just filled in.

                                As far as I know, the only cyclotron still operating at UC/LBNL is the 88" machine on the Hill, and maybe it's gone since I retired. The 184"
                                machine building is now occupied by the Advanced Light Source. The Bevatron is gone - all of the measurably "hot" bits were hauled to Washington and buried somewhere on the Hanford reservation. I forget what the building planned for the site is to be used for.

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