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  • #31
    Originally posted by aostling View Post
    Open the link in reply #8, by 11 Bravo. You will see that it is a Porter compressed air locomotive. No smokestack. Maybe a whistle.
    interesting, good link

    Based on fast I can trip my air compressor with certain tools I'd have guessed you wouldn't get very far on a tank of air doing that kind of work. btw, no smoke stack doesn't mean its not a steam engine, just not one with a boiler and combustion, ie the type industrial switcher (called fireless locomotives) that would fill up with super heater water from a stationary boiler.
    .

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    • #32
      Originally posted by aostling View Post
      That is a very informative website. It answered some questions I had, about the inefficiency of an isothermal compression stage, followed by an adiabatic expansion which can ice the pipes.

      I've been through Gillette only once, in 1999 when en route to Buffalo and a tent site above Ten Sleep. That is very pretty country. There was a huge RVer convention in Gillette with hundreds of motor-homes the size of Greyhound buses. I don't know why some people think they need to take the kitchen sink along when they go camping.
      Glad you found the link interesting.

      We have a surprising number of big conventions like that in Gillette. The big RV shows in addition to the RV club jamborees seem to have something going at least every summer. We had a big convention of guys that build commercial fireworks a few years back. It was pretty cool. Apparently they would build fireworks all day learning new techniques and stuff, then shoot them off every night to judge the results. We have a BMW motorcycle convention here that brings in hundreds of BMW riders. Lots of stuff happens out at that Cam-Plex center.

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      • #33
        I thought they were supposed to be more efficient than similar fired locos?
        Not even close. Compressed air efficiency calculations must take into account the thermodynamic cost of compressing the air to begin with. By the time the actual work produced at point of use is calculated vs the work required to store the air the entire cycle efficiency of that type of engine is less than 1 percent. Even with the latest current technology the best that anyone has been able to do is around 10 to 15%. As I said, anything (as motive power) is better than that.
        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
          btw, no smoke stack doesn't mean its not a steam engine, just not one with a boiler and combustion, ie the type industrial switcher (called fireless locomotives) that would fill up with super heater water from a stationary boiler.
          I was thrown by your comment: "could it be a steam engine with a heat source?" I thought you meant an onboard heat source.
          Allan Ostling

          Phoenix, Arizona

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          • #35
            No idea about the loco, but went through that town when I was wandering around the country as a teenager back in the early 70s, back then it was little more than a dumpy little town filled with ramshackle buildings, took an hour to find a place to get a drink and half a day's walking before I got a ride out with a couple of stoners and fellow longhairs heading for california.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by aostling View Post
              I was thrown by your comment: "could it be a steam engine with a heat source?" I thought you meant an onboard heat source.
              ah....sorry, my mistake, meant to say "without"
              .

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              • #37
                Their is one in the park in Colman Alberta it was used in the coal mine I think it was the McGivery Mine.

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                • #38
                  their is one in the park in Colman Alberta it was used in the coal mine I think it was the McGivery mine but it has been 40 years passed ago I lived in the Crows Nest Pass.
                  M.I. Twice

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                  • #39
                    Superheated steam makes an intresting power source. As evan states, compressed air SUCKS.
                    But you can superheat water, And while it boiling off will reduce the heat, if its superheated it has awhile to boil before it drops below 100c, Theres no issue with running dry since you don't have a fire to melt the boiler/tubes/brazing, You could extend the running time by using some other superheated material (Maybe something to do with regeneration from brakes? Or a large chunk of steel thats heated to 1000c?), water can store a LOT of heat too and phase change is where efficencys really at. Compression sucks.
                    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by loose nut View Post
                      You mean that your great, great grandmother couldn't run faster then her brother.
                      Actually, and I Sh!t you not, my grandmother never had to change her name when she got married. Back then I don't think it was the 3rd cousin rule but how many 'hollers away from your prospective mate you lived.

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                      • #41
                        if you have the air, and you cannot have the fire, or any serious risk of it, it kinda does not matter exactly how efficient it isn't.... You do as well as you can, and live with it.

                        The air re-heater is a good idea...... A paint factory near where my employer used to be had a big tank of liquid nitrogen. No information what they used it for, but blanketing solvent tanks and the like comes to mind. They have 3 story high tanks of all sorts of volatile solvents out by the road, and mixing air with teh fumes seems like a rotten idea..

                        Anyhow, on the exit pipe, there is a huge heat exchanger, which is generally about half iced-up. presumably this helps them get the nitrogen out as a not horribly cold gas.

                        I have seen even better expander systems that ran a turbine or the like from teh expanding gas. presumably they do not need any such shaft power at the paint plant
                        1601

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

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                        • #42
                          I expect that this was used for underground mining where you do not want to contaminate the air (anymore than it already is). At a mine where I worked many years ago in Northern Ont they used air for most underground machinery and electric battery locomotives (much smaller than the picture) which were good for about a shift per charge. This cuts down drastically on the ventilation required, in fact I think all the ventilation in that mine was natural. Back to the original question the air pressure was about 100 psi.

                          Ken

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                          • #43
                            Charged up with a fresh load of steam (and hot water) . There is a more modern one in North East PA (that's a town a little east of Erie) It was a nice welded tank with a small cab at the rear. Was used at a power plant in Erie. Could run for 8 hours on a charge. Was filled with hot water from the power plant boiler at pressure.

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                            • #44
                              I operated one very similar to that at a mine near Fairplay Colo. We were working over a mile underground with an electric loco and a dozen ore cars.
                              Out side we dumped the waste off the side of an eighty foot high trestle.You ALWAYS chain the ore car to the rail in case the muck is sticky and wants to take the car with it over the side.
                              Well some one didn't. Locomotive and twelve cars down in the canyon,no way to salvage anything until spring.
                              The owner scrambles up a few ore cars and this ancient air loco built from a propane tank and a vane type air motor chain drive to an axle.
                              Hook it up to the main air line with a one inch hose and wait half an hour for it to reach pressure. jump on, open the valve and take off like a rocket....for maybe a hundred feet.Out of air.
                              Ended up dismantling five thousand feet of six inch steel air line and adding tees and valves every few hundred feet.
                              Must have had three hundred feet of air hose draped over the damned thing so we reach the next recharge valve.

                              There were some wood fired steam locos used years ago.In timbered mines they would nail corrugated tin to the overhead timbers so the sparks would not lodge in the timber and catch fire.
                              I don't know that they were used in a dead end drift,ventilation would be impossible.The only ones I heard of were larger mines with multiple adits and good ventilation.

                              But the majority of the old mines used a pony or donkey to pull the cars.I have explored a few old mines and found rooms blasted out as a livery,with old harness still hanging on nails.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 1-800miner View Post
                                But the majority of the old mines used a pony or donkey to pull the cars.I have explored a few old mines and found rooms blasted out as a livery,with old harness still hanging on nails.
                                Yours is quite a tale. I looked up Fairplay in the 1941 WPA guide book to Colorodo, and read this:
                                FAIRPLAY, 71.3 m. (9,964 alt., 221 pop.), is another of the State's old mining towns. A group of prospectors, affronted because miners drove them from the rich placers at Tarryall (see Tour 15a), settled here in 1859 and named their camp Fairplay in disparagement of their rivals.

                                Near the center of town a monument (L), erected by citizens in 1930, marks the Grave of Prunes, a burro. Brought into South Park in 1867, Prunes is said to have worked in every mine in the Fairplay-Alma district. Robert Sherwood, an old-time miner, who died in 1931 at the age of 82, was buried at the rear of the monument as he had requested.

                                Did you meet any old-timers when you were there, guys whose memories went back to the 1930s?
                                Allan Ostling

                                Phoenix, Arizona

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