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  • #31
    Originally posted by JCHannum View Post
    Starrett 1-2-3 blocks do not and never did have any tapped holes. They have five through holes that don't match each other in such a way as to make any convenient fixture.

    For my purposes, I have never had occasion to bolt my 1-2-3 blocks together, and see no reason to do same.
    While I agree with the Starrett statement, I see no reason to not bolt your blocks together if you can.

    Actually I rarely bolt mine together anymore. But this is because I now have a couple of Suburban angles along with several other in various sizes. Before I had alternatives, I bolted my blocks together quite often.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by lazlo View Post
      WTF? Yes, most Western metrology companies make/made single-hole 1-2-3 blocks, including Starrett. Obviously we are talking about the 1-2-3 blocks with 11 or 23 holes, where the through holes are supposed to be 5/16".

      The Chinese botched the prints and drilled all the holes with an F-drill, so you can't use 5/16" bolts to make angle blocks with them.
      Mine are 1-2-3 blocks with 23 holes. Five of them on the large face are tapped 3/8"x16 which I discovered this morning by carefully picking up the thread of a 3/8"x16 bolt and shaving it down on my lathe. Even then it is a very tight fit but twists easily onto a die. I don't have any taps that will pass very far into the threads so was never sure what the pitch was or if it was or wasn't metric. The 3/8" bolt of course won't pass through any of the unthreaded holes. I think the tight fit of the threaded holes is due to hardening.

      They've been very handy spacers in my shaper vise.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally Posted by oldtiffie

        Given that in a lot of cases a "block" is used as a packing clamp or spacer etc., I cant see that much accuracy at all is needed and if it is surface grinding is a quick and eacy accurate solution. The normal "Chinese" blocks are quite sufficiently accurate for parallel and squareness for just about any purpose and as such are quite good enough (for me anyway) "as is" "right out of the box".
        Originally posted by willmac View Post
        I really can't let this go without comment.

        123 blocks that are not ground very accurately square and to size within tenths are simply not 123 blocks in my view. The whole point is their their accuracy. Original 123 blocks did screw together easily and that is also part of their DNA. The fact that Chinese 123 blocks don't, just means that they are faulty. The fact that you can still use them to some extent even with this fault is fortunate.
        My 1-2-3 and up to 6" blocks were bought from LittleMachineShop.com (they a re a lot more expensive when shipped here to Australia.

        http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1233&category=

        http://littlemachineshop.com/product...dID=1149188930

        At that sort of accuracy its fine as I've never needed them more precise. I've run a very good 2um (2 micron) - 0.00008" TDI over them using slip guages on my surface plate and they check out very well.

        I doubt that I would bother to put them under my surface grinder as they may not turn out any better.

        They are very cheap and reliable and I'd guess that many would not need that level of accuracy.

        Many may not have the facilities to measure/check to a "couple of tenths" either - so its based on trust and in my experience thus far it is trust well placed.

        In some shops - mine included - if 1-2-3 blocks and the like were only to be used for jobs that required that level of accuracy they might never get used at all - or only rarely.

        But given that they probably were bought to be used they would be used on less accurate jobs as well/anyway.

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        • #34
          Originally Posted by oldtiffie

          I doubt that Starrett's blocks (all holes tapped) were - or are - a formal USA standard of any kind. The "some drilled holes not tapped" model is just as much a "standard" (or not) as the Starrett model is and perhaps just a variation on a theme.
          Originally posted by JCHannum View Post
          Starrett 1-2-3 blocks do not and never did have any tapped holes. They have five through holes that don't match each other in such a way as to make any convenient fixture.

          For my purposes, I have never had occasion to bolt my 1-2-3 blocks together, and see no reason to do same.
          Jim,

          that post of yours got my attention as I've rarely had to query your advice.

          I went to the current Starrett catalogue for the current rang of 1-2-3 blocks - and sure enough you are dead right - drilled holes ony (ie none tapped).

          http://www.starrett.com/metrology/pr...op-Tools/706BZ

          http://www.starrett.com/metrology/me...ortBy=none/asc

          http://www.starrett.com/metrology/pr...op-Tools/706AZ

          and a few are going to buckle at the knees at the price: US$654 each metric and US$300 each for "inch"!!!

          The "Starrett blocks have all tapped holes" people may have a problem.

          If they want ANY tapped holes they are going to have to buy "Chinese" at about US$30 a pair at LIttleMachineShop or similar.

          I note too that Starrett do not list (make?) blocks larger than 1-2-3.

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          • #35
            I have a few Chinese (Shars) and Brown & Sharpe block pairs. All if them are identical: 5 out of 15 holes on the large faces are threaded so that 3/8"-16 bolts can go all the way through. All the other face and side holes are neither threaded (which is understandable) nor are clearance holes for the 3/8"-16 bolts. This later part I cannot explain rationally (that are those holes for, in the first place?).
            Last edited by MichaelP; 10-22-2012, 08:29 PM.
            Mike
            WI/IL border, USA

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            • #36
              Originally posted by MichaelP View Post
              I have a few Chinese (Shars) and Brown & Sharpe block pairs.
              I have a set of the Brown & Sharpe "Ultra Precision" 1-2-3 blocks. They're made in China, and they also have the botched through holes like you describe.
              "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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              • #37
                I doubt that the "Chinese" blocks with only some tapped holes are "botched" as the non-tapped holes are not 3/8" clearance holes.

                I still think that the non-tapped holes were drilled for ease of heat-treatment and stress-relief and the improve differentail cooling and cracking.

                It seems that Starrett only make 1-2-3 blocks and all holes are drilled for 3/8" clearance.

                If you want all "clearance" (non-tapped) holes mortgage the house and buy Starrett.

                But if you want some (even if you'd prefer all) holes to be tapped - buy the US$30 a pair ones at LittleMachineShop.

                If you want Starrett quality with all holes tapped (for using "captive/waisted" bolts) then get a quote from Starrett as a "special (cost)" item and be prepared to pay for it.

                Otherwise, put up with what you've got or make your own or just plain go without.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I wanted the kind of blocks Rudy had in his video and thought that is what I was getting. http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...ks-424731-.htm

                  I think that everyone else who had that expectation feels the same way. Really just that simple. To summarize this thread:

                  Some say they're wrong
                  Some say they're wrong but suck it up
                  Some say right or wrong they don't care cuz they wouldn't use them anyway
                  Some say they're useful even if wrong.

                  I think we're done here

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dp View Post
                    Some say they're wrong
                    Some say they're wrong but suck it up
                    Some say right or wrong they don't care cuz they wouldn't use them anyway
                    Some say they're useful even if wrong.
                    I would say: 1,2 and 4
                    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by lazlo View Post
                      I would say: 1,2 and 4
                      Heh - well, the OP got a full answer, at least.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        make studs with the tapped thread on one end, and the clearance size plus next smaller thread on other end... screw into one block, then pass through the other one and put a nut on.

                        Works fine that way. And you have a shop to do the work in, right?

                        yes, it would be nice if they were made easy to use, but if not, so long as they are parallel, they will work with some adaptation.

                        Don't remember where I got mine, but they are just as you all say, tapped and undersized holes, alternating.
                        1601

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post



                          Don't remember where I got mine, but they are just as you all say, tapped and undersized holes, alternating.
                          And that's the next thing working out if they tapped the correct pattern

                          Can't check my set, they are still in heat treat but as I was walking over with them I noticed that if you laid one block down and stood the other up in the tallest configuration there were no tapped holes only thru holes.

                          Mine can't bolt into a 3" high angle.

                          This was one point I looked at when I designed the metric blocks that ARC sells, they will bolt in any configuration.
                          .

                          Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by George Bulliss View Post
                            I can't help you with a specific number, but I know for sure it would cost more to EDM out the holes than to simply purchase new blocks with the proper holes. EDM is a very slow way to remove metal and then you have the need to purchase and perhaps machine the graphite electrodes. Even if you supplied the electrodes ready to mount in the shop's mounting system, I would guess the shop would still have close to two hours into drilling the flushing holes in the electrodes, setting things up in the machine, and machining the holes. Around here, that's going to push you past $100 by a fair amount.

                            Edited to add: Talking about plunge EDM here. The holes could be done on a wire EDM as well, but it wouldn't be any cheaper. The wire used is expensive and the time to thread and cut the multiple holes would take at least as long as on a plunge machine.
                            With a ram EDM all you need for enlarging through holes is a piece of copper turned with a lathe to a wanted diameter minus the overcut. And most sinkers are CNC, so depending on a shop you might get it done for little cash.
                            Amount of experience is in direct proportion to the value of broken equipment.

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                            • #44
                              Why not just buy the metric blocks from Acu trade and have nice blocks. A bunch of you could buy a bunch and save on shipping. It must be cheaper than trying to make a silk purse out of your sows ear 123 blocks.
                              Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                              How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
                                Why not just buy the metric blocks from Acu trade and have nice blocks. A bunch of you could buy a bunch and save on shipping. It must be cheaper than trying to make a silk purse out of your sows ear 123 blocks.
                                Cause Byron is in the 'States, so Metric 1-2-3 blocks are useless to him
                                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."

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