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  • #61
    Originally posted by oldtiffie View Post
    Dave.

    Did you get a sense that the blocks were case-hardened or hardened "right through"?

    If they were case hardened and penetrated by an SDS masonry drill as you've done, do you think that the "under-sized" non-tapped holes could be similarly drilled out to tapping size and tapped with a common set of HSS taps?

    All just for the cost of an SDS drill and a bit of mill time.

    If so, other than hole positioning, it should quiet the gripes/moans and give anyone who wants to try it the maximun options - with no heat-treatment and post treatment suface grinding.

    Nicely thought out and done.
    Who's moaning and whining? I got mine cheap, and have used them a couple times only.

    As for hardening, by the time they are perforated as much as the usual ones are, a decent "case" goes nearly through them. probably hardened through, or nearly so.

    Anyhow, with a tad of threading work a couple of studs can be made that will allow the blocks to be used as they are. What's the problem?
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Mike Hunter View Post
      Well I know its not Starrett but you can always go with Brown & Sharpe http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

      $68 and yes they even come with the little bolts to bolt them together.
      The problem is that you really cannot bolt them together due to the absence of clearance holes.
      Last edited by MichaelP; 10-24-2012, 01:05 PM.
      Mike
      WI/IL border, USA

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      • #63
        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
        Who's moaning and whining? I got mine cheap, and have used them a couple times only.

        As for hardening, by the time they are perforated as much as the usual ones are, a decent "case" goes nearly through them. probably hardened through, or nearly so.

        Anyhow, with a tad of threading work a couple of studs can be made that will allow the blocks to be used as they are. What's the problem?
        The moaners and groaners were those complaining about no "through" holes when it seemed to be thought - without much justification - that the "Chinese" model were incorrectly copied from the "proper/original Starrett" model when that may not have been the case at all.

        "small.planes" (dave) soon showed the quick, cheap solution to that at post #49 (page 5):

        http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...739#post803739

        I have to say that now that Dave has "done it", it was all too obvious - and embarrassing in its simplicity - but appreciated here at least.

        So now that the "way ahead" is cleared up, it seems that any "problems" with "no through holes" is squarely in the court of those with that "problem".

        I've alway just made "captive/waisted" bolts if/as required - couple of minutes work - but I am sorely tempted to drill at least some of the small plane holes out and see how I go.

        So far as I am aware that other than Starrett 1-2-3 blocks (with all "through" and no "tapped" holes) the only real available (all Chinese) universal models on the market now are those that youwill find in any catalogue.
        Last edited by oldtiffie; 10-23-2012, 10:43 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by oldtiffie View Post
          The moaners and groaners were those complaining about no "through" holes when it seemed to be thought - without much justification - that the "Chinese" model were incorrectly copied from the "proper/original Starrett" model when that may not have been the case at all.
          When did sharing defect information about a product become whining? It was something I didn't know before buying mine and I wish I had known it. Thanks to this post it is now more widely known. Like many cyclic posts it will come up again until the vendors stop accepting these defective parts or post up front they will not bolt together. It is this kind of feedback and awareness that helps improve our lot and can save us some aggravation. I don't think that is whining.

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          • #65
            Dennis.

            If the 1-2-3 (and larger) blocks are bought new or used in matched pairs they will bolt together - as all of mine do.

            I can't see that they are "defective" at all as there seems to be no accepted standard for them and so manufacturers (and there may be many of them) can put the holes where they like, in which case there almost certainly will be differences.

            Provided that sizes, flatness and squareness are the same then provided that blocks do not need to be bolted together they are functionally the same.

            A quick web scan of suppliers will soon show that matched sets/pairs are readily available.

            If I had your "mis-match" problem I'd either "bin" them and get a new (LMS) US$13 - 0.0002" accuracy matched pair and perhaps I'd keep the "mis-match" pair for when I needed 1-2-3 blocks that did not need to be bolted together.

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            • #66
              Through hardened, and watch out for the swarf it comes of *HOT*

              Dave
              Just south of Sudspumpwater UK

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              • #67
                Originally posted by oldtiffie View Post
                Dennis.

                If the 1-2-3 (and larger) blocks are bought new or used in matched pairs they will bolt together - as all of mine do.

                I can't see that they are "defective" at all as there seems to be no accepted standard for them and so manufacturers (and there may be many of them) can put the holes where they like, in which case there almost certainly will be differences.

                Provided that sizes, flatness and squareness are the same then provided that blocks do not need to be bolted together they are functionally the same.

                A quick web scan of suppliers will soon show that matched sets/pairs are readily available.

                If I had your "mis-match" problem I'd either "bin" them and get a new (LMS) US$13 - 0.0002" accuracy matched pair and perhaps I'd keep the "mis-match" pair for when I needed 1-2-3 blocks that did not need to be bolted together.
                Don't worry Tiffie you don't need them to bolt together to pose with them.

                First you say all yours will bolt together, then you say you uses waisted bolts, then you say you are going to try Small Planes method.

                Truth is you are a wanker - pity your dad wasn't.
                .

                Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                • #68
                  Sir John I have never heard that one before. My wife wants to know what is so funny. She heard me laughing downstairs. Now how do I explain that one in German!!!!!
                  Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                  How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by oldtiffie View Post
                    I've alway just made "captive/waisted" bolts if/as required - couple of minutes work - but I am sorely tempted to drill at least some of the small plane holes out and see how I go.
                    Would you be so kind as to show your 3/8"-16 waisted bolt installed through a 5/16" clearance hole.
                    Jim H.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Where is the evidence that the tapped holes were originally intended for clamping blocks together? They could be used for clamping to fixtures, or have buttons fixed to them, or any of a number other uses.
                      Peter - novice home machinist, modern motorcycle enthusiast.

                      Denford Viceroy 280 Synchro (11 x 24)
                      Herbert 0V adapted to R8 by 'Sir John'.
                      Monarch 10EE 1942

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Peter. View Post
                        Where is the evidence that the tapped holes were originally intended for clamping blocks together? They could be used for clamping to fixtures, or have buttons fixed to them, or any of a number other uses.
                        Hmmm. This is actually true.
                        Mike
                        WI/IL border, USA

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          In the course of buying and selling tooling, I have encountered many shop made 1-2-3 blocks. I believe many of them were made as apprentice or school shop projects as their construction encompasses many skills. Machining tool steel, drilling and tapping, heat treating, grinding and lapping to precise tolerances are all required to produce an accurate pair of 1-2-3 blocks. Others, I am sure were made by machinists in their spare time from offcuts or scrap odds and ends around the shop to use idle time on long cuts, etc.

                          Many of these had some combination of holes, tapped and/or untapped as well as others which were solid or only had one central hole in the large face. This leads me to believe the holes are dictated more by some requirement for training or the whim of the builder than some hard and fast rule that they be capable of being fastened together in some manner. In addition to the 1-2-3 blocks, I have also encountered any number of V-blocks, angle plates, step blocks and other workholding devices that are of original construction that show the skill and imagination of the maker.
                          Jim H.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Peter. View Post
                            Where is the evidence that the tapped holes were originally intended for clamping blocks together? They could be used for clamping to fixtures, or have buttons fixed to them, or any of a number other uses.
                            Where is the evidence they are not intended to clamp together? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

                            In fact the preferred units are capable of exactly that, and awareness and expectations of many are aligned with that fact. Additionally, some of us are less disappointed with the blocks than the lack of full disclosure by the vendors regarding what they are capable of. Rather than "binning" a vendor for this and losing an otherwise worthwhile asset, the higher road is to provide useful feedback. Some vendors (John Stevenson, for example) have responded with an acceptable product. That seems like a win.

                            There is no obvious downside (this admittedly is argument from ignorance on my part, BTW - there may be reasons I'm not aware of) to producing these blocks in such a way that they can be attached to each other and so no reason not to do it.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by JCHannum View Post
                              Would you be so kind as to show your 3/8"-16 waisted bolt installed through a 5/16" clearance hole.
                              Can't - as you surmise.

                              But a "captive" or "waited" 3/8" bolt will.

                              If bolting the 1" sides together, a 3/8-16" x 2" long bolt with say a 1 1/2" long section btween the head and end was to be turned down to slightly less that the root diameter the bolt would screw through the 1" screwed block with a 1 1/2" long screwed section of the bolt protuding 1/2" - to be screwed into anything the block was to be bolted to. The bolt with its plain section (less then the root diameter) would be retained in and be loose in the 1" block.

                              Easy.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Here are the "John Stevenson" blocks from ArcEuroTrade.

                                http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalo...s-Angle-Plates

                                They are very well priced and seem to have all the benefits required for those that don't like (hate??) the normal "Chinese" ("inch") 1-2-3 blocks - except that John's blocks are (quote) "packing blocks with 8 TAPPED and 8 CLEARANCE holes allowing two or more blocks to be connected together in various configurations such as angle blocks, tee blocks, or used as a fixture to hold small parts for machining" (unquote) (which will appeal to most/all except that they are "metric" - which may upset somein the USA (ie no "inch" version and are tapped M6 and M8 (metric).

                                But we in Australia are "metric" too - like most of the advanced (and not-so-advanced) countries.

                                But all that aside it seems to be a very good product (matched pairs too!!) at a very good price.



                                Who - other than the "inch" people (mainly in the USA) could ask for more?

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